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Thread: 4345 4355 networks

  1. #1
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    4345 4355 networks

    I need to build up some cc networks to finish up my project and need to know what is the final drawing I need .

    I am using 2245
    2123 H
    2441 2441 dia. ( will later change to 2452 HSL }
    2405



    Has anyone a parts list for partsexpress ?
    what brand name of parts are prefered ?
    how much does it cost to buld a set ?

  2. #2
    Senior Member Woody Banks's Avatar
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    The drawing for the CC 4345 network submitted by Giskard can be found @ http://www.audioheritage.org/vbullet...esigner-s-Post

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    Thanks woody what I was looking 4 was the 4355 equiv. networks I am using the 2123 and 2441 - 2311 combo

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    Senior Member Woody Banks's Avatar
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    Sorry, I was having another senior moment. Your component choice should produce some really ourstanding results. I ended up building the 3155 equivelent, thanks to Giskards post.
    A good friend has a system using components very similar to yours but has gone with a full four-way active Marchand crossover and a quad amp setup that produces jaw dropping results. Of course he is a Marchand dealer and the cost involved would exceed the charge coupled 3155. Good luck on your quest.

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    yes I agree

    I am using 2 2496 begr. crossovers at times I get the same results but trying to keep 4 amps and 2 active crossovers working good at the same time makes it quite a hard time ! cable humm ect digital on this scale just dont quite get it .

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    Senior Member Odd's Avatar
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    4345-4355

    I think you will find answers to some of your questions here

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    Is this the network I want when using the 2123H http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=243739#post243739 ?
    How important is the dcr for the iron core inductors , does it have to be exact I don't see the same values listed for some anywhere ?
    Last but least but not to start another capacitor topic war, but what caps are working out the best for these 4345s = bang for the buck
    where is the best places to buy parts here in the usa

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    > This is the network I believe you should build up, if you want to copy Giskards super build ( just be aware that it was biamp only ).

    > Giskard has stated repeatedly that he found that the 2123H to be such a close match to the 2202H ( just a couple of db less efficient ) that he simply used the N3155 schematic as the base network for his super 4345 .

    JBL 3155 ( original ) schematic

    > Read what Mr. Widget did here ( relating to the question about adding back in, Lpads into the stock network ) .

    > Because the tapped inductor ( within the original 3155 ) is no longer available ( & no longer preferred in actual usage ) all would-be builders are directed to the following network ( because it eliminates the tapped coil ) .

    > SO: Here's the 3155 equivalent ( from 2003 ) , as worked up by GT & Giskard .



    > To C.C. this newtork, simply double the value of the capacitors ( leave out the bypass caps ) , and double the quantity of the caps .
    > Twin the caps ( insert them in series, in place of the original values ) .
    > Where each pair of ( twinned ) caps are joined togther , add a 2 to 3 meg resistor ( to be fed individually from the + side of a 9V battery ) .
    > Connect the minus side of the battery to the ground side of the network .
    > Use Solen caps . They work really well in CC networks .
    > ( At a quick glance ) I would use Solens', 16ga, air-core coils for everything but the 2.4mH inductor / where I would use whatever coil type was affordabe, as long as it had a dcr less than .4 ohms .


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    Thanks Earl, this is exactly the answer I was looking for.

    > To C.C. this newtork, simply double the value of the capacitors ( leave out the bypass caps ) , and double the quantity of the caps .

    As a example if it called for 8UF I would use 2 16UF in series correct ?

    as for 8ohm or 16ohm diaphragm the only change would be Lpad ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by kartsmart
    As a example if it called for 8UF I would use 2 16UF in series correct ?


    > Correct !

    as for 8ohm or 16ohm diaphragm the only change would be Lpad ?
    > That's not correct .

    > Changing the impedance for any of the 3 driver types ( from what a stock 3155 expects to see ) will necessitate at the very least, a partial rework of the network ( which
    you obviously don't want to manage on your own ) .

    > My advice; Either keep with the program ( use official 3155 component impedance values ) or be prepared to pay someone to design a custom network for you / ( note; it's probably cheaper to simply buy the correct impedance diaphragms ).




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    2441 were avaialble as 8 ohm or 16 ohm units, H OR J designations.
    my drivers measure 8 ohms so I should have 16 ohm Dia. ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kartsmart
    2441 were avaialble as 8 ohm or 16 ohm units, H OR J designations.
    my drivers measure 8 ohms so I should have 16 ohm Dia. ?


    > If your 2441s measure 8 ohms (dcr), then you don't need new diaphragms for your drivers to work with the N3155 .

    > I just measured the DCR for (3) 2441 drivers . They are all @ 8 ohms dcr .

    > BTW, though the 2441 ( could be said to carry a "J" ) designation ( in todays parlance ) , but it didn't ( historically ) .
    > It was simply known as a 2441 ( period, end of story ).

    > The 2441 was only available with a single impedance ( aluminum domed ) diaphragm .




    > The "H & J" designations didn't come into being until the introduction of the ferrite versions of these Pro drivers.
    > That designation never existed in the days of "everything Alnico" .

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    Another Question ?

    To cc I under stand that I need to double the value of the cap and 2 in series .
    The question I have is If I can not find the value I need the print witch shows I need to double the value of 18 uf x2 = 36uf example-- can a 33uf in series with a 39 work or do I need t parallel 2 cap to = 36 using 4 caps ?

  14. #14
    Senior Member Lee in Montreal's Avatar
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    Capacitors' values add-up when in parallel. Per exemple, a circuit with four 9µF caps in parallel makes 36µF

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    To cc I under stand that I need to double the value of the cap and 2 in series .
    The question I have is If I can not find the value I need the print witch shows I need to double the value of 18 uf x2 = 36uf example-- can a 33uf in series with a 39 work or do I need t parallel 2 cap to = 36 using 4 caps ?
    (i) Please use the word "which" from now on .

    (ii) The final value of all capacitors wired in series, is found by totaling their reciprocal ( "1/x" ) values ( this formula works for 2 or more caps ) .

    eg ; Total Capacitance of 39uF & 33uF in series ?

    > 1/39 ( 0.25641026 ) + 1/33 ( 0.03030303 ) = ( 0.055944056 ) = 17.875 ( which is close enough in most applications )

    (iii) What you might want to calculate ( assuming one has a 33uF cap ) is found by this math ;

    1/18 ( 0.055555556 ) minus 1/33 ( 0.03030303 ) = ( 0.025252525 ) = 39.6 ( uF ) to be exact

    or if one has a 39uF cap , then ;

    1/18 ( 0.055555556 ) minus 1/39 ( 0.0256441026 ) = ( 0.02991453 ) = 33.43 ( uF )

    > Those odd values can be arrived at by paralleling small value caps onto the larger cap ( as mentioned by Lee ) .


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