PT800 System Dilemma

[pathfindermwd]

I am very happy to announce a recent purchase of a pair of PT800 units. I bought these used units on Ebay and they were pretty nice for the price. I have only been able to listen to them for a few hours, and I think I am really going to like them. I have an eye on putting together a stereo system with newer pieces with an eye on value and excellent performance.

The PS1400 units I bought new from an online outlet. The price was very good but the sale isn't going well. My credit card has not been charged yet, but the units have not been shipped yet either, it has been 3 weeks.

I have also been power shopping for a sub. Not only have I always wanted to find a suitable sub to supplement what I already have, having read the entire Performance Series thread, I understood that the PS1400's might need some low frequency help. Well, along came a heck of a deal to buy two demo Array 1500 subs, and with a shaky hand I pulled the trigger on the single biggest audio purchase I have ever made! I am excited and fearful all at the same time!! I had been wanting to do a 2245 project but work just has me eternally busy and if I can't build it, I guess I'll have to buy it! There are a few 2245 "options" out there for sale but shipping becomes a problem. From what I have read these Array 1500 units are better than a 2245 option, and considering that they are powered, I think I got an exceptional deal.

What I am wondering and am soliciting advice on is whether I should continue to try to obtain the PS1400 units or if the two Array 1500's would be enough, and if I should attempt to figure out some kind of dock to mate the two. I would hate to start drilling on the Array 1500's, but maybe some kind of stand to position the PT800's above might work? The 1500's also do not look to have any speaker connections, so I would have to obtain an electronic crossover to divide frequency to the PT800's.

Well, what do you guys think? Do i need the PS1400's?

P.S. The PT800's came without the Mounts to the PS1400. Can someone tell me if the mounts come with the Pt800's or the PS1400's. Additionally, one of the PT800's came without the bottom metal plate. Is this plate needed to mount the unit to the PS1400? Anyone have a spare? PM me.

[JBLAddict]

The mounts and gold connecting straps come with the PS1400. You will also need the metal plate at the bottom of the PT800. After removing the cover on the 1400, the vertical mounts are screwed in place, and the metal plate on top. The PT800 then screws into the metal plate.

I don't think the PS1400 has issues. As a stack, they are designed to cross at 130Hz and work together exceptionally well. The criticism is that they are also marketed as standalone subs in HT mode, and many feel they're not tuned low enough to fill that role at only 28Hz. I agree and therefore use a much cheaper, smaller coned, sealed box L8400 for the sub since it goes to 22dB

The more time I spend listening to them, and A/B'ing with the L7s they replaced, the more impressed I am how clean the low end is for music and how well it transitions to the 8" Ti mid-bass of the PT. Add the beautiful 4" Ti mid, and you have something powerful yet clear and delicate when all's said and done. I would avoid hacking a true sub to mate together, and pursue the 1400 that was tuned for the stack. Add the 1500s for LFE use, and you have one of the finer HT systems around, JBL or otherwise. If I have one more move left in me, it's to upgrade my sub to subs and to an HTPS400 or better, sub1500s should the money fairy leave as bundle under my pillow.

I am very happy to announce a recent purchase of a pair of PT800 units. I bought these used units on Ebay and they were pretty nice for the price. I have only been able to listen to them for a few hours, and I think I am really going to like them. I have an eye on putting together a stereo system with newer pieces with an eye on value and excellent performance.

The PS1400 units I bought new from an online outlet. The price was very good but the sale isn't going well. My credit card has not been charged yet, but the units have not been shipped yet either, it has been 3 weeks.

I have also been power shopping for a sub. Not only have I always wanted to find a suitable sub to supplement what I already have, having read the entire Performance Series thread, I understood that the PS1400's might need some low frequency help. Well, along came a heck of a deal to buy two demo Array 1500 subs, and with a shaky hand I pulled the trigger on the single biggest audio purchase I have ever made! I am excited and fearful all at the same time!! I had been wanting to do a 2245 project but work just has me eternally busy and if I can't build it, I guess I'll have to buy it! There are a few 2245 "options" out there for sale but shipping becomes a problem. From what I have read these Array 1500 units are better than a 2245 option, and considering that they are powered, I think I got an exceptional deal.

What I am wondering and am soliciting advice on is whether I should continue to try to obtain the PS1400 units or if the two Array 1500's would be enough, and if I should attempt to figure out some kind of dock to mate the two. I would hate to start drilling on the Array 1500's, but maybe some kind of stand to position the PT800's above might work? The 1500's also do not look to have any speaker connections, so I would have to obtain an electronic crossover to provide power to the PT800's.

Well, what do you guys think? Do i need the PS1400's?

P.S. The PT800's came without the Mounts to the PS1400. Can someone tell me if the mounts come with the Pt800's or the PS1400's. Additionally, one of the PT800's came without the bottom metal plate. Is thie plate need to mount the unit to the PS1400? Anyone have a spare? PM me.

[pathfindermwd]

The mounts and gold connecting straps come with the PS1400. You will also need the metal plate at the bottom of the PT800. After removing the cover on the 1400, the vertical mounts are screwed in place, and the metal plate on top. The PT800 then screws into the metal plate.

I don't think the PS1400 has issues. As a two way stack they work together exceptionally well. The criticism is that they are also marketed as standalone subs in HT mode, and many feel they're not tuned low enough to fill that role at only 28Hz. I agree and therefore use a much cheaper and smaller coned L8400 for the sub since it goes to 22dB

Thanks JBLAddict. I may be going over-board with the 1500's, I know. Well, you only live once!

[rdgrimes]

Most likely, that "online outlet" never had the PS1400s in the first place.

Be sure you're not using the PT800 with any signal below 80Hz.
I think the Array 1500 would be a stupendous match-up, but mount the PT800 elsewhere - on the wall or on some stands. If we're wishing for fishes here, a pair of PS1400 with an Array 1500 kicker would be the ticket.

[pathfindermwd]

Most likely, that "online outlet" never had the PS1400s in the first place.

Be sure you're not using the PT800 with any signal below 80Hz.
I think the Array 1500 would be a stupendous match-up, but mount the PT800 elsewhere - on the wall or on some stands. If we're wishing for fishes here, a pair of PS1400 with an Array 1500 kicker would be the ticket.

It's a little sad that my ebay purchases came off without a hitch versus a business selling new stock. But to be fair, they haven't charged me for them yet either.

I wasn't shopping for 2 subs but I got a better deal for 2 of them. One should be plenty. If I don't want to keep it I'll sell it to a friend of mine after he drools all over it!

As the PS1400 deal was evaporating I thought that the 1500's might just be enough all my themselves! How closely aligned do you think the 800's would have to be to the 1500's to sound right? If the 800's were mounted to the wall and the subs were just positioned near them would that work well?

[rdgrimes]

How closely aligned do you think the 800's would have to be to the 1500's to sound right? If the 800's were mounted to the wall and the subs were just positioned near them would that work well?

Covered to some extent in the PS manual. On a 80Hz crossover it won't make much difference at all. The PT800 will gain a bit when wall mounted, so it's always worth trying. I'll assume you're using some sort of EQ setup routine.

[Slare]

I have complete 800/1400 stacks that I absolutely adore but I would happily trade my 1400s for the array subs you've got.

The 800/1400 combo could certainly benefit from adding the array subs (or even just 1) to the mix, but it is a small benefit that would only be appreciated by a rather narrow selection of music, and your electronics needs get more complicated due to need crossover management.

I think in the end you need to decide, or we need to know, what your intentions are on the electronics / source side of things to say what makes the most sense. A lot of what will make for the "best" system depends on your opinions/options on that side of things.

The problem I see is the two ending systems have very different overall budgets and fundamentals.

1. 800/1400 stacks with the simplest electronics as plain as a 2ch amp and pre, integrated amp, or even a stereo receiver. With the bottom end being powered and the PT800's crossed at 130hz... there is no need for a monster amplifier. They will hum along very happily with a clean 120 - 150wpc. This would be the inexpensive setup if you are the type likes "just flat" sound without getting into room eq and treatments. Not saying this is right or wrong, it is just a preference thing in my opinion.

2. Having the array subs in the mix complicates things. Now you need crossover management in your electronics, and really need to get into room eq to dial things in to get them working well with the 800's. There is a huge range here from a lowly $200 AVR all the way up to as much as you'd like to spend getting into separates. For me I think it really depends if you are biased against using an AVR or not. Here, I think the "value" setup would be a mid to high end AVR with Audyssey XT32 in it. That with the 800's and Array subs would make for a very solid system. But many others would object to using an AVR in such a setup. There is a lot of opinion involved.

Either way I have a hard time seeing the value in having both the array subs and the 1400s. Yes, two of each would be the "best" possible system. But the return is very small for the cost.

[rdgrimes]

What one "needs" is a separate topic. What anyone would "want" is a pair of PS1400 AND a pair of Array 1500. Satisfying budgetary constraints might requie limiting oneself to a single Array 1500. I'm quite happy with a pair of PS1400 and a HTPS400 for sub duty. Although I also have the PS1400 configured as subs.

[grumpy]

I'm quite happy with a pair of PS1400 and a HTPS400 for sub duty.

That combination works quite well. I would imagine the array 1500 could support the
ULF role at least equally well (underpinning PS1400/PT800 stacks).

[rdgrimes]

That combination works quite well. I would imagine the array 1500 could support the
ULF role at least equally well (underpinning PS1400/PT800 stacks).

Agreed. The PS1400 is very strong at 30Hz, so you really only need additional sub muscle for 20-30Hz. In some rooms you might not really need that either. Mine happens to be about 3500CF and the extra oomph really helps. Of course more is always better - or at least more fun.

[Robh3606]

Well, what do you guys think? Do i need the PS1400's?

Well it depends there is lot's you are leaving out. This is Movies and Music?? How big a room?? What are you going to run for LFE if movies??

My own set-up I have LE-14's in bigger 4 cuft boxes as bottoms in my full range stacks. Then I have a pair of B380's for LFE. It would be nice from the standpoint of having the perfect mates for your 800's but obviously the 1500 can handle the low end. It's a quandry for shure. If you can swing it?? You can always sell some stuff off later if you want. Might want to give it a try.

Rob

[Slare]

What one "needs" is a separate topic. What anyone would "want" is a pair of PS1400 AND a pair of Array 1500. Satisfying budgetary constraints might require limiting oneself to a single Array 1500. I'm quite happy with a pair of PS1400 and a HTPS400 for sub duty. Although I also have the PS1400 configured as subs.

Well he already has the pair of Array subs. I was simply trying to point out that the source side equipment he does need is going to be directly tied to what speaker config he settles on. Spending my own money I would have a very hard time justifying adding PS1400's when the Array subs are already sitting there.

I've been in this situation before where you end up with gap components because a really good deal pops up. You can waste a lot of money if you don't think out the end game for the system up front, and in cases like this it sometimes requires hard decisions. People usually tend to stay on a path rather than stop to rethink it.

Actually if it was my money for a strictly music system, I'd either call it a day or sell one of the Array subs and turn it into two PS1400's. I think we can all agree 2 800/1400 stacks supplemented by a Array 1500 would be a very nice setup for any sort of 2ch music. Run with that for awhile and maybe figure out the remaining Array 1500 could be sold as well.

[pathfindermwd]

Wow, you guys have been busy today! Thanks for chiming in, I appreciate all your input.

What has happened is that I have found a source and a SUPER good deal for the PS1400's, which I have decided to get, despite the purchase of the 1500's. Someone I'm sure you all know.... I didn't know I would be able to find another source for them quickly, and that is what brought on my conundrum.

Just from the standpoint of how to mate the PT800 to the low frequency both physically and sonically makes the PS1400 all but essential. The last thing I wanted to do is to get into a lot of DIY work. It's fun, but I don't have the time, and I came to terms about it with the the decision to purchase the 1500's instead of a 2245 project as well. Right now it's easier for me to buy what works, and I'm okay with that because my buying skills are currently better than my DIY skills!

Once I found the PS1400's for a reasonable price, the value/performance of a complete stack seemed ideal, the 1500's aside.

This will be a 2 channel system (plus subs). I found that music subs are hard to find, and the current 2214's/LE14's don't need alot of help. What I am hoping from the subs is just some low frequency reinforcement really, just want to be able to feel the bass a little better. My room is about 12' wide by 24' deep. All the bass winds up at the back of the room, and I hope that sub placement will help with this.