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Thread: Hardwood Flooring Acoustic Help

  1. #31
    Senior Member pathfindermwd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by herki the cat View Post
    Very succinct, Lee in Montreal, your advice to move to a smaller quiet room is right on.herki[Quote/]
    Quote Originally Posted by Lee in Montreal View Post
    Hey pathfindermwd

    My upstair living room looks very much like in your picture. Cathedral ceiling, hardwood. Plus one side opened to a dining room. Even with an 8'x 8' shaggy carpet and fluffy sofas, I couldn't get rid of the reverberation in th mids, which "killed" the bass (proportionally speaking). I removed the TV and sound system from that room. It was too painfull and it made me dizzy. The same system that was awfull in the living room got moved to the bedroom, where it sounded perfect with wall-to-wall carpet and big bed.

    In your case, if you want to keep some music in there, you'll have to be creative with room treatment.

    Quote Originally Posted by BMWCCA View Post
    Sorry. Still have my mind on Woody's 250ti clone project!

    I suppose you could always try your setup in a different room. Probably easier said than done.
    Room acoustics seem to be one of the few variables remaining.

    I think you guys are saying that I need to relocate the stereo...

    The only available room would be a spare bedroom, or the kids room, and it aint going in the kids room! He already jabbed a small hole in the mid-range cloth that I will have to solicit advice on how to repair.


    It has to stay in there (LR), that's where everything happens. I know there will have to be some modifications to the room which I think the GF is alright with (she actually like's my speaker interests,think's it makes me look cool, for now anyway.. )

    What I have done in the meanwhile is this 1. Turn down the L-pads to super low numbers to decrease the offensive sound energy/reflection. 2. I have bought 2 wooden footstools 11" high raising the speakers. Raising the mid-range off the floor should help with the sound energy hitting/reflecting off the floor. 3. I am still playing around with tilting them to see if this can help, at this height, or if it will just be beamy. By raising the sound, I am affecting how it reacts with the room/floor a little. At this point, I'll take whatever I can get....

  2. #32
    Senior Member Lee in Montreal's Avatar
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    One thing you could try is to change the location of the speakers. Instead of having them facing a very close wall (which probably doesn't help with reverbaration), perhaps you can place them facing a wall that is further away. Basically, perpendicular to their current location.

  3. #33
    Senior Member pathfindermwd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lee in Montreal View Post
    One thing you could try is to change the location of the speakers. Instead of having them facing a very close wall (which probably doesn't help with reverbaration), perhaps you can place them facing a wall that is further away. Basically, perpendicular to their current location.
    I agree. If they were up against the window they would have the benefit of some boundary reinforcement for the bass as that is a small cubby. The footstools help. I can't turn up the L-pads, but I do discern better (much better really) balance, more dynamic sounds coming through, less noisy, less muddy. It's a work in progress. Next up is a big area rug in front of the couch, some carpet runners thrown about, curtains, maybe some square foam art for the walls.

  4. #34
    Senior Member herki the cat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pathfindermwd View Post
    .... It's a work in progress. Next up is a big area rug in front of the couch, some carpet runners thrown about, curtains, maybe some square foam art for the walls.
    There is an interesting low tech thing you can try to get a good feel for the mid range reverberation density in your room. More on this a Little later. First, consider that there are many uncontrolled variables in the recorded program material heard in this room, and the acoustic clues vary drastically among the various recordings used."

    In acoustics, the reverberation time at a particular frequency is defined as the time taken for sound to decay by 60 dB; often abbreviated "RT60" or the more simple RT30 to decay by 30 dB. If the overall RT60 is more than 1.5 seconds, the room acoustics will be "live" and echoy."

    Using a test tone of 500 Hz, or 250 Hz for music, is traditional for measuring the RT60 or the RT30. This effort requires a sound pressure level meter with built in microphone adequate for measuring RT30, costing approx' $30 to $60 at Radio Shack, plus a logarithmic oscilloscope, a test tone CD, & a transient-free switching device.

    Alternately, a "tone-burst" generator plus the SPL meter & the oscilloscope is much more practical.

    The low tech approach is to use a single tone in the mid frequency band at 80 or 90 Db SPLaccording to a sound pressure level meter while observing a big clock with a continuously sweeping second hand. Then turn off the test tone at the input to the amplifier and observe how many seconds it takes for the sound in the room to decay to complete inaudibility. This decay time should correspond to an RT30 event. Obviously, if the decay time to inaudibility after signal shut-off exceeds 1.5 seconds, the RT30 reverb hang over is excessive requiring additional damping in the room. herki[Quote/]

  5. #35
    Senior Member herki the cat's Avatar
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    Speaker placement & half space considerations

    Quote Originally Posted by pathfindermwd View Post
    .... It's a work in progress. Next up is a big area rug in front of the couch, some carpet runners thrown about, curtains, maybe some square foam art for the walls.
    This tutorial www.fulcrum-acoustic.com/2010/11/daves thoughts on space, does not address the reverberation problem, but it will explain "what happens with the speaker resting on the floor", and that "Off the floor" changes things significantly. The original post has been slightly revised and is now available in PDF form.

    Click this button: Get it here.

    herki [Quote/]

  6. #36
    Senior Member pathfindermwd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by herki the cat View Post
    This tutorial www.fulcrum-acoustic.com/2010/11/daves thoughts on space, does not address the reverberation problem, but it will explain "what happens with the speaker resting on the floor", and that "Off the floor" changes things significantly. The original post has been slightly revised and is now available in PDF form.

    Click this button: Get it here.

    herki [Quote/]
    "If however we aim the loudspeaker away from the boundary, then the high frequency output of the
    image, or reflected, loudspeaker never arrives on the real side of the boundary see Figure 5. The
    low frequency pressure doubles, but the high frequency pressure is not changed at all by the presence
    of the boundary. Obviously a surface cannot have an effect on sound that doesn't strike it."


    So in the context of my application, this seems to be saying that if you tilt the speaker back, then it would help the reverberation issue by keeping the sound from striking the floor...as it would be aimed away from the boundry.

    Of course, this does not speak to how differently the drivers may sound at an angle...

    "In both cases any physical separation from the
    boundary results in frequency response combing in the direction perpendicular to the boundary."


    I do not understand this statement well. What is meant by combing?

  7. #37
    Senior Member Lee in Montreal's Avatar
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    Just curious. Have you tried moving the speakers' location yet? Putting them in corners will reinforce bass. Angle them and it will reduce medium frequencies. As realtors say : Location, location, location.

  8. #38
    Senior Member pathfindermwd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lee in Montreal View Post
    Just curious. Have you tried moving the speakers' location yet? Putting them in corners will reinforce bass. Angle them and it will reduce medium frequencies. As realtors say : Location, location, location.
    Thanks Lee,

    I hear what you're saying, speaker placement IS very important. Without turning the LR sideways, there's not much I can do. If it were my place....

    If I put the speakers in the corners of the current wall they would probably be 20'-25' apart. I would definitely need longer speaker cable! I doubt that would add a alot of quality though.

    Presently the bass isnt bad. The midrange/tweeter are turned down very low, bringing the bass up in comparable volume. It doesn't yet sound that great, but it is better.

    I know what the speakers are capable of in a different room, and with better components. I am bummed out to confront the advise of some that say the room just may not ever produce good sound, they may be right, but I'll do what I can to make small but significant improvements.

    I appreciate the suggestions..

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