Different Definitions of Quality

[herki the cat]

Crosely Radio inc's 1,000,000 Watt AM Station, in Cincinnati, Ohio,was inspired in the 1930's Dr. Brinkley's, 100,000 Watt, speech quality only, Off Shore illegal AM Station (on which, Dr. Brinkley offered "goat gonads, trans-plants") __ Gad this really happened!__ now! back to the topic of Class B amplifiers at home.

Sunday Noon, sitting around crunching Pistachio Nuts, watching TV__ Some After Thoughts occurred to me regarding 50,000 Watt AM Transmitters with 12,500 watt, Class B Audio Modulator Power Amplifiers & transmitting tube High-Quality Sound during the entire 1930's, up to the 1950's demise of AM broadcasting and movie theaters, forced by burgeoning Television.

I worked in Crosely Radio's burgeoning Military Communication Devision in Cincinnati, Ohio, briefly in 1950, just as Crosely was shutting down the 1,000,000 Watt AM Radio Station which Crosely had built to expand the market for Crosely small kitchen radio receivers, backed up by expanding AM Radio advertising markets.

I did visit this Huge Radio Station, And my point here is to mention the Huge 250,000 Watt Modulation Transformer spec'd at 30 Hz to 10,000 Hz. This transformer stood like a huge refrigerator, 7 ft high, 4 ft wide by 5 ft front to back, oil cooled. I know that Bell Labs & WECO didn't know where to stop, but this AM, station was unique. herki[quote/]

[gferrell]

What a weird and twisted thread... not sure what all the talk of billet aluminum is about, but as for a definition of quality as it relates to "sound quality"... I used to have three of the Soundcraftsmen 800 series amps... a lot of amp for $100 or so. Sound quality? I think they sound better than your typical stereo receiver and a hell of a lot better than your typical AVR surround receiver, but not as good as any of the amps I have kept. I enjoyed them in my HT for years though the fan noise could be distracting during quiet passages.


Widget

These amps are essentially new old stock and the fans are virtually slient (you have to put your ear up to them to hear) so I will enjoy because I know some day, as with all fans they will get louder. My next plan is to make some face plates for the 2 that are without. I have never experienced the sound of a high end, tube amp or class A so I don't know what I am missing. I have considered building one though as that would be the only way I could afford one.

[rusty jefferson]

What a weird and twisted thread... not sure what all the talk of billet aluminum is about, but as for a definition of quality as it relates to "sound quality"...

Widget

Speaking of which, does anybody think one of those $900 power cords will improve.........okay only kidding.

[herki the cat]

Speaking of which, does anybody thing one of those $900 power cords will improve.........okay only kidding.

Only kidding? Not necessarily, rusty! Off Topic or On Topic, Here are the considerations:

[text improved,2/13/12]

1.0 __ USE CAUTION!! you cannot examine candidate power cords by simply substituting a candidate power cord. Your system may already be clean of interference in which case you do not need these special cords.

Other wise, you may be concluding "that candidate power cord is a fake;" So what? you may already not need any fancy power cords.

Most power cords are fake fancy configurations of many types of simple wire mechanically beefed up, impressive looking, but do nothing useful. You need to first examine your AC power source net works with a 40 MHz oscilloscope to see if there is interference or noise on your power lines , either from some system component black box, or from the house AC power line.

There are two kinds of useful power cords with built-in Filter Components featuring serious measurable attenuation of interference; one of which incorporates a "hand-size module" designed by Richard Marsh which is a complete passive power conditioner.

1.1__Some cords use ferrite cores around the cord bundle. These will filter only common mode interference. You can hear a substantial improvement by cleaning up common mode inerferance.

1.2__The Richard Marsh Device addresses both common mode and differential mode interference. This gem features a passive wide-
band, five ohms shunt across the power line providing load attenuation of some 40 dB from slightly above 120 Hz up past 20,000 Hz which is very effective for both differential and common mode interferenc; especially cleaning up also the 60 Hz power line distortion to less than 0.25 percent total.

These are not cheap, costing typically around $700 MSRP. But, they are very competitive with the typical active power conditioners that regenerate a clean 60Hz signal amplified by substantial solid state hardware dissipating considerable waste heat, costing 3 or 4 times
the price of the Richard Marsh system.

BTW, Inserting a seres 10mH coil ahead of this shunt, five ohm, device further cleans up power line niose & distortion. You must use an
RC snubber ahead of this 10mH coil to remove the "L times DI/DT" surge generated locally by the "turn-on & off" power surge from this coil.

Before you buy any of these power cords, please examine your AC power with a 40 MHz oscilloscope. MIT Inc., has a lending library you can safely explore.
.

[Mr. Widget]

Speaking of which, does anybody think one of those $900 power cords will improve.........okay only kidding.

Obviously some people do.


Widget

[herki the cat]

....Only kidding? Not necessarily, rusty! Off Topic or On Topic....Before you buy any of these power cords, please examine your AC power with a 40 MHz oscilloscope. MIT Inc., has a lending library ....

To request an in-home trial of a set of MIT Power cords or Cables, first, go to link: http://www.mitcables.com/highresolutiontechnology.html.

There you will please skip this text= "Oracle V1.3 and V2.3, Now with High Resolution Technology"

Next,proceed to the search Box on the left, & click: "Gen 3 Lending Library"

Now, work your way down to [Quote....Bruce Brisson, MIT Cables' President and CEO]="I have created a Lending Library so you can borrow from MIT and audition MIT cables in your personal system…on me. I promise that you will not be disappointed!"

If you followed the above procedure, you can request an in-home trial of a set of MIT Power Cables__via an active "click here" button following Brissen's offer"To request an in-home trial of a set of MIT Power Cables' or other cables."

BTW, it took a great deal of time & effort to set up this post.herki[quote/]

[Lee in Montreal]

$900 per power cable. My rack has 6 amps, 1 pre, 3 sources 1 DAC and 1 digital crossover. Does it mean I have to buy 12 cables at $900 each to reach aural climax?

[herki the cat]

[QUOTE=Lee in Montreal;328796]$900 per power cable. My rack has 6 amps, 1 pre, 3 sources 1 DAC and 1 digital crossover. Does it mean I have to buy 12 cables at $900 each to reach aural climax? [/QUOTE]

Positively not! You need to measure the noise levels in your AC power networks first.

There are Many Professional used $40.00, MHz Oscilloscopes available. First turn off all your audio equipment, and measure the 120 volt AC line for noise with various house hold appliances, florescent lighting, refridgerators, etc activated one at a time__on and or off.

Then activate your audio components one at at time & measure the power interface on each one individually to see if each component is clean or has noise requiring power line isolation or some kind of upgrade, usually in power supply's equipped with conventional solid state rectifiers that are not "fast recovery types"

Conventional Solid State Diodes store the charge and dump it with a violent RINGING SURGE, 120 time per second, each time the charging voltage drops below the filter capacitor charged voltage level. It is virtually impossible to clean up or filter power supply circuitry with poly propylene capacitors or any technology known to man. I have been there. You need to Change these nasty rectifiers to incorporate "Fast Recovery Diodes" or vacuum tube rectifiers, that do not retain & dump the charge.

As for the house wiring, it may be necessary to install dedicated private, isolated AC power feed lines __including isolated dedicated star grounding to each audio power feed duplex outlet all the way from your house 120 volt entrance panel, completely isolated from refrigerators etc.

If indeed you do need genuine power cables, consider the Excellent Ferrite encased common mode type costing $175 .00, the original Z series cord from MIT Inc.,I am not pushing MIT Inc., They just simply do lead the pack.

MIT's new "Z" 20 ampere Duplex @ $199.00—_is Designed to be easily installed in new or existing wall outlet receptacles, "MIT's "Six patented, parallel tuned filters operating over the widest frequency range, remove noise from any 50-60 Hz AC power line. Unlike the common series filter, the Z Duplex 20 Super will not limit dynamics, or reflect noise back at the source (amp, etc.) It also provies Elimination of common mode and differential mode noise.

I would not purchase from anyone else including Monster. I do not know of any decent power cord costing $900; there is just to much really fake junk boutique junk around. Also don't subscribe to gossip!

With Power Cords that MIT"s Bruce Brissen will loan you free of charge, you can investigate your probems with confidence. herki[quote/]

[JeffW]

What a weird and twisted thread... not sure what all the talk of billet aluminum is about,

Oh give me a break. You were right there in the thick of it. From this very thread:

Let's start by giving everyone the benefit of the doubt and rule out unintentional unreasonableness as well as full blown dishonesty and bad faith dealing...

...Alternatively if our perception of audio plays a greater roll in our perceived sound quality, then maybe billet machined faceplates are indeed what is necessary for some, and a lot of features at a good price point for others to find audio nirvana.


Widget

Yep, we buy this shit because of the faceplates.

You've already confirmed that the sound quality is just a perception based on the friggen faceplate, then post this:

Recently when a forum member offered to buy one of my Haflers (still in storage) I dragged one out and put it into service full frequency on my 1400 Arrays... in this far more appropriate application where the amp is asked to produce several watts into the dozens, the damned thing sounds really, really, good. Perhaps not as good as a Class A amp from Mr. Pass, but certainly very enjoyable.

So why even go there with this post? You've already said it's just perception. Certainly flies in the face of the whole "the benefit of the doubt and rule out unintentional unreasonableness as well as full blown dishonesty". Why the condescending "perhaps not as good" little aside? You don't even need to answer, we know the condescending little aside is due to the construction of the damn faceplates. I just wonder why you'd try to deny all that now.

But you've pointed out in another thread (that I'm too weary to even find) that none of this crap is needed. I think you said was all you need is an iPod and some earbuds, right?

Don't fret, I'm doing what I can to rid myself of every component that costs more than a few dollars. I'm striving for the shittiest system possible. iPod and earbuds.

And I have you and TiDome to thank for setting me straight. Much appreciated.

ETA: I'm really not upset over this whole deal. I'm over the whole billet faceplate debacle, and realize I purchased shit. But I'm willing to own up to that, surely you can do the same re your posts on it.

[Mr. Widget]

Jeff, it seems that you aren't joking. I'll proceed as though you are being quite serious.

As for being in the thick of it I must have missed something, because somewhere along the line what I thought was a light hearted rant about expensive housings (billet aluminum face plates) for expensive audio gear you started going on about how much you hated Pass Labs. I assumed you were joking... what's to hate? But never mind.

As for my comments on perception, I made no claims to any position, other than there seems to be far more going on than just the physics when it comes to our enjoyment of reproduced music.

As for the iPod? I do use one, but I use it as a hard drive, playing lossless files through a high quality DAC... I doubt I ever mentioned ear buds. I don't even particularly like listening to my large Sennheisers.

"I'm really not upset over this whole deal. I'm over the whole billet faceplate debacle, and realize I purchased shit. But I'm willing to own up to that, surely you can do the same re your posts on it."

I don't even know where to begin on this line. If I've inadvertently offended you, I apologize. If this whole thing is a joke, using a wink here or there would be helpful.


Widget

[Allanvh5150]

On the topic of Billet faceplates, most of them are produced from flat bar. Totally pointless to machine a flat plate from a billet. They are also not overly expensive to produce.

Allan.

[hjames]

If I contributed to pain in any way in this fest, I apologize -
I thought the thread was satire and parody and kidded appropriately.
No slander or pain was meant ...

[grumpy]

I'm over the whole billet faceplate debacle, and realize I purchased shit.

how could this -not- be a joke, or at least a severe case of tongue-in-cheek...?
I'm not getting it, but than again... there is no requirement that I do.

Has this thread run it's course? or is there more on-topic to discuss?

[Robh3606]

ETA: I'm really not upset over this whole deal.

You coulda fooled me. Are we eventually going to get past this or is this going to go on and on and on?? From this side of the fence it's a lot of ill will over nothing.

Rob

[Mr. Widget]

Has this thread run it's course? or is there more on-topic to discuss?

Personally I am very interested in the original topic... I guess that makes sense since I more or less started it. That said it has been rather disappointing as the signal to noise ratio has been unusually low.



Widget