Why is so many unteressted in measuring?

[pos]

What I really ment to say is what is the perfect intstument for meassuring a good or not så good speaker (driver)? It is your ear! no matter how good (or bad) it looks at teclnical specs it is what we hear in our home that decide what is the best. A speaker that has a "flat" response from 50Hz to 15000Hz compared to another speaker that has a speck (flat) from 16Hz ro 50000Hz is of no use. Why? because if you try to get the same output from a 16Hz speaker as from a 50Hz speaker, the 16Hz speaker will "pup up" and land on the flor in front of you because the amount of air the 16Hz speaker is not capable of this, unless it can move several inces. I have never seen such a speaker. It crac out long berfore it can reproduse such a deep frq. (at a normal listening level of about 100db) You need a """ large woofer to do this. How big? have not a cue.

What are all those "Hz dB inches" you are talking about here?? It looks like you don't have a clue, and that's perfectly fine: you don't need that to envoy you system as a end-user.
So leave speaker design to those how actually understand this mumbo-jumbo (JBL does, and you can be glad they actually rely on scientific approaches rather than audiophile mystics when designing your speakers) and concentrate on your hears when listening to mucic (= artistic performance) through your loudspeakers (= engineered tools).

[cohearent]

I don't know where you get the idea that 16hz is so impossible to reproduce. I have JBL 2245 18" woofers in my system and they reproduce 16Hz beautifully. Maybe an 8" can't do it at any reasonable volume, but many larger drivers can. The larger the driver the shorter the excursion for the same listening volume.

[Maron Horonzakz]

I must add at 16 hz you dont hear it you FEEL it.

[Rolf]

What are all those "Hz dB inches" you are talking about here?? It looks like you don't have a clue, and that's perfectly fine: you don't need that to envoy you system as a end-user.
So leave speaker design to those how actually understand this mumbo-jumbo (JBL does, and you can be glad they actually rely on scientific approaches rather than audiophile mystics when designing your speakers) and concentrate on your hears when listening to mucic (= artistic performance) through your loudspeakers (= engineered tools).

So I don't have a clue of what I am talking about? Well, that is your opinion.

[Rolf]

I don't know where you get the idea that 16hz is so impossible to reproduce. I have JBL 2245 18" woofers in my system and they reproduce 16Hz beautifully. Maybe an 8" can't do it at any reasonable volume, but many larger drivers can. The larger the driver the shorter the excursion for the same listening volume.

Yes, I know that. A single 16 Hz you can hear (feel). But if There is a 40 Hz tone at the same time I don't believe the woofer can handle the 16 Hz at the same level as 40 Hz. Think about how much moovement the woofer must move to push all that air needed to deliver the same db at 16 Hz compared to 40 Hz.

[Rolf]

I must add at 16 hz you dont hear it you FEEL it.

That's correct.

[herki the cat]

Seawolf 97 Your new AVATAR, All huff & no biting! Great fit! herki[Quote/]

[timc]

Yes, I know that. A single 16 Hz you can hear (feel). But if There is a 40 Hz tone at the same time I don't believe the woofer can handle the 16 Hz at the same level as 40 Hz. Think about how much moovement the woofer must move to push all that air needed to deliver the same db at 16 Hz compared to 40 Hz.

True, but what is your point? This is the case for any frequencies. If you half the frequency (drop one octave) you need to move 4 times more air to get the same SPL. Doesn't matter if it is from 40Hz to 20Hz, or from 200Hz to 100Hz.

I'm in the camp that claims that if it measures good and sounds bad, the measurements are wrong, incomplete or misinterpreted.

I think the problem is that people get hung up on what happens in the frequency domain, and completely forget the time domain. Many time domain responses can produce roughly the same frequency response graph. But they will sound very different.

-Tim

[1audiohack]

I'm in the camp that claims that if it measures good and sounds bad, the measurements are wrong, incomplete or misinterpreted.

I think the problem is that people get hung up on what happens in the frequency domain, and completely forget the time domain. Many time domain responses can produce roughly the same frequency response graph. But they will sound very different.

-Tim

[Fort Knox]

What I really ment to say is what is the perfect intstument for meassuring a good or not så good speaker (driver)? It is your ear! no matter how good (or bad) it looks at teclnical specs it is what we hear in our home that decide what is the best. A speaker that has a "flat" response from 50Hz to 15000Hz compared to another speaker that has a speck (flat) from 16Hz ro 50000Hz is of no use. Why? because if you try to get the same output from a 16Hz speaker as from a 50Hz speaker, the 16Hz speaker will "pup up" and land on the flor in front of you because the amount of air the 16Hz speaker is not capable of this, unless it can move several inces. I have never seen such a speaker. It crac out long berfore it can reproduse such a deep frq. (at a normal listening level of about 100db) You need a """ large woofer to do this. How big? have not a cue.

Let the guys do their thing!

[SEAWOLF97]

Seawolf 97 Your new AVATAR, All huff & no biting! Great fit! herki[Quote/]

thats great, great, great grandpa .. we are all monkeys ....or cats/rats , some just more than others ...
I admit my roots
if you'd feel better, I'll take a bite out of your posts ? that wud be easy...too easy tho .



Whoa , I didn't realize that you are famous

pretty cool taking your nom de plume from a 5 y.o. runaway , neutered feline from Scotland ....
bite,bite,bite

Name: Herki
Description: Herki went missing from his home in Ballieston, Glasgow on 17/10/11. He is a friendly 5-year-old brown & black tabby short-haired male cat who was not wearing a collar when he got lost. However, Herki has been neutered and micro-chipped. http://www.glasgow.cats.org.uk/glasgow/lost-and-found?id=6391

[Rolf]

True, but what is your point? This is the case for any frequencies. If you half the frequency (drop one octave) you need to move 4 times more air to get the same SPL. Doesn't matter if it is from 40Hz to 20Hz, or from 200Hz to 100Hz.

I'm in the camp that claims that if it measures good and sounds bad, the measurements are wrong, incomplete or misinterpreted.

I think the problem is that people get hung up on what happens in the frequency domain, and completely forget the time domain. Many time domain responses can produce roughly the same frequency response graph. But they will sound very different.

-Tim

I totally agree. Maybe I did not get it out right, but what you say is correct.

[audiomagnate]

So I don't have a clue of what I am talking about? Well, that is your opinion.

Rolf, I think you're trolling. And let me help you with your English, the way you say the above is "Yeah well, that's just, ya know, like, your opinion, man"

But seriously, a lot of people around here are doing more than walking into a stereo store and picking out a speaker. They're designing new systems from the ground up, cloning existing systems etc. Without measurements it would be easy to start believing you had designed the perfect system, just because YOU had designed it. It's human nature. I believe the wise man Fat Bastard said it best, "Everybody loves their own brand!"

[Fort Knox]

Rolf, I think you're trolling. And let me help you with your English, the way you say the above is "Yeah well, that's just, ya know, like, your opinion, man"

But seriously, a lot of people around here are doing more than walking into a stereo store and picking out a speaker. They're designing new systems from the ground up, cloning existing systems etc. Without measurements it would be easy to start believing you had designed the perfect system, just because YOU had designed it. It's human nature. I believe the wise man Fat Bastard said it best, "Everybody loves their own brand!"

Hey audioman ..you look Steve Martin

[hjames]

Hey audioman ..you look Steve Martin

... and let me help you with your English, the way you say the above is "Hey Audiomagnate - you look like Steve Martin"