I wonder why so many her is interessting in measuring speakers. Isen't it sound we are interresting in? I dont give a f**ck about measureing, but I care about THE SOUND. If driver has "ts, vs or 'wc, I dont care. Use your ear to find out what sounds better or worse. Some here looks more to specks than sound. Dohoo.
I can certainly see how you could draw that conclusion. For me it is partially the curiosity that drives me. I believe that in order to get the most out of something complex, or to repair something complex properly you must first really understand how it works. Armed with sufficient knowledge and data one can select components and assemble systems that will likely perform as expected. A far more efficient method than any other I know of.
This works for me as I like creating things that are particularly suited to my desires. A lot of the stuff I build I could easily afford to just go out and buy but where is the adventure in that? That's the other part that drives me. The reward is two sound systems that I absolutely love, that I largely developed myself.
Next up and soon is a dedicated listening room, from the dirt on up. For this I have the invaluable assistance of a good friend of mine who happens to be a professor specializing in small room acoustics, but he is not going to design it for me, I will be his student in the lab so to speak and if you think we do a lot of measurements of speakers, you should see the amount of data collected during acoustical projects! Frankly I can't wait.
The end goal for me however is the musical experience, what was learned along the way is icing on the cake, and the people I met and got to interact with is the ice-cream.
If we knew what the hell we were doing, we wouldn't call it research would we.
Not that I know much about the theory ,but what I do know , will learn, will be from members such as yourself . It would be easy to waste a ton of cash and time without the research behind a project .Originally Posted by 1audiohack
To be able to build speakers ,or any audio component is both blessing and a curse . There is always that little thing you want to tweek ! To come to think of it ..... Its not just sound ,its anything one builds .
If a job is worth doing ,its worth doing to the best of ones ability .
Thanks for passing on your experience , Rich
Perhaps Rolf is saying dont get hooked on measurements and become a curve junky
I agree it won't help you design a world class loudspeaker.
However if something sounds amiss to your ears a good Test set might help you locate the problem
Fine, and I'm probably in the same boat since I'm ignorant . . . but I'm damn glad someone cared or I'd likely not have the fine instruments I'm fortunate enough to be listening to as I type this reply.
". . . as you have no doubt noticed, no one told the 4345 that it can't work correctly so it does anyway."—Greg Timbers
can't gear measure good, but actually sound bad ?
ie: be within all the right parameters and not fulfill the expectations ?
cable, wire, JBL's
then measurement is a starting point to weed out the chaff before time
is spent on listening tests.
Some kind of happiness is measured out in miles
Psychoacoustic and delusion. It's easy to convince yourself that your tin can sounding system is as good as any high end monitor. Measurements don't lie.
Sure, but think of how many measurements it would really take to accurately describe anything complex. One could say my wife is 36-24-36 and right off the bat many would be thinking wow, those measurements however could be a thigh, arm and neck and even if they were what you originally thought, how thorough of a description is that? Doesn't even scratch the surface does it.
Its been said that if it measured good but sounds bad, you measured the wrong thing. Worse than that there are many ways to manipulate the results of measurements just in the parameters you set, and still worse you can make measurements that are total fiction.
If we knew what the hell we were doing, we wouldn't call it research would we.
Are you kidding??
Rob
"I could be arguing in my spare time"
Not to a person competent to interpret them, they don't.Measurements don't lie.
To someone without a sufficient intellectual foundation to understand audio measurements - i.e. most "audiophiles" - things are different.
IME: If it measures bad, it sounds wrong.
Johnny Haugen Sørgård
The only thing that measured bad but sounded good is tube amps.
Why?
You have to define what "bad" is. A vintage McIntosh or Marantz tube amp measures pretty good and sounds great. Usually around .1 percent distortion until you get up to full power. (And then maybe .25)
.003 percent distortion is fine (high performance solid state), but can you really hear second or third harmonics 60 dB down? That is what .1 percent distortion means. You can hear 1 percent 2nd or 3rd harmonic on a tone (40 dB down), but it becomes more difficult to hear on music. Lets keep in mind that even good speakers produce way more distortion than a good amp. (Numbers like .003 equate to diminishing returns) There are many other things like square wave response which tell you how the amp responds to transients. The Mc and Marantz stuff was pretty decent in this regard also.
If you are talking about 3 watt SETs to my ear they sound exactly like they measure. BAD. They aren't in any way accurate, which is to say the output doesn't resemble the input. They have very high order second harmonic (I have measured over 10 percent within their rated power), and lousy low frequency damping because of very high output impedance. And that is how they sound. I have listened to many and measured many. If that's what you like, fine. In my book they aren't even high fidelity. BTW, high distortion, if it is low order, doesn't always sound bad, but it is adding something that isn't in the recording, especially at 10 percent (harmonics 20dB down) and that IS very audible on music.
My rule: If it measures good and sounds bad, it's bad (Not measuring all the needed parameters) But beware of the reverse: If it measures bad and sounds good, you're fooling yourself, do some more listening!
Best,
Kev
What I really ment to say is what is the perfect intstument for meassuring a good or not så good speaker (driver)? It is your ear! no matter how good (or bad) it looks at teclnical specs it is what we hear in our home that decide what is the best. A speaker that has a "flat" response from 50Hz to 15000Hz compared to another speaker that has a speck (flat) from 16Hz ro 50000Hz is of no use. Why? because if you try to get the same output from a 16Hz speaker as from a 50Hz speaker, the 16Hz speaker will "pup up" and land on the flor in front of you because the amount of air the 16Hz speaker is not capable of this, unless it can move several inces. I have never seen such a speaker. It crac out long berfore it can reproduse such a deep frq. (at a normal listening level of about 100db) You need a """ large woofer to do this. How big? have not a cue.
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