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  1. #1
    Senior Member herki the cat's Avatar
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    AR-XB Turntable

    QUOTE=SEAWOLF97;196135]One of the nicest classic AR turntables that you will find...plays super (2 speeds)..includes good dustcover and EMPIRE 66 QE/X cart/needle. This has the cueing that the XA model didn't have...PM me if intereested.for shipping estimate, just calc 15 pounds from 97233/also have a second one that needs cleaning and has no arm if anyone is interested, does have DC[/QUOTE]It it is not common knowledge that "the AR Turntable platter is identical to the fantastic 'Linn Turntable Platter." The Linn turntable also uses a tiny clock motor, & a string drive belt plus a very efficient simple chassis suspension. This AR platter is dead quite & does not ring like a bell, because it is a "two-component platter design,"__ mounted on the main shaft __ supporting a 6 inch diameter aluminum center disc with a 1/4 inch step outer-diameter coupled to a 12 inch diameter disc "ring" with a matching 6 inch hole completing the 12 inch platter design "ripped off " from the linn turntable. __ Take the mat of the AR platter to see this construction.

    The word in RCA Camden stated by the late genius, Mr. Al. Witchy __Co-inventor of the famous "Perry Como RCA Bk-10 Microphone," and the post WW-2 Photophone Permanent Magnet 3 inch Phenolic High Frequency Horn Drivers superseding RCA's MI-1428 HF Drivers__ was, quote: "you achieve very llttle damping by coating metal horns etc, with tar and felt materials. You need a gap, however thin, in metal structures to kill the metal ringing like a bell."

    Perry Como had a very soft voice requiring an ultra directional microphone __ the RCA-BK-10 created for Perry__ which could be positioned back out of view of the TV Studio cameras. ...herki [QUOTE/]

  2. #2
    Senior Member Audiobeer's Avatar
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    PM sent!

  3. #3
    Senior Member herki the cat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Audiobeer View Post
    PM sent!
    PM to Whom?

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    Senior Member Audiobeer's Avatar
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    That's freakin funny, I saw your response to a 4 year old post and assumed it was a new thread for the turntable sale. So I PM'd Seawolf and got a response rather quickly that he sold it almost 4 years ago. I tried to recover by telling him that it was my 3G phone that took so long to get the message through, but he's not buying it. I just came off as stupid.

  5. #5
    Senior Member herki the cat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Audiobeer View Post
    That's freakin funny, I saw your response to a 4 year old post and assumed it was a new thread for the turntable sale. So I PM'd Seawolf and got a response rather quickly that he sold it almost 4 years ago. I tried to recover by telling him that it was my 3G phone that took so long to get the message through, but he's not buying it. I just came off as stupid.
    [Quote " I just came off as stupid,"] I would say"not really," My sincere apologies, it was not your fault that I failed to include the 4 year old post date. I was mired up in a "heads up" lookout for these AR's with the same superb quiet Linn record platter. These AR's still show up in Church Rumage Sales including Estate Sales of our contemporaries down-sizing to move to retirement comunities, and Yard Sales, the Goodwill Stores, and Trade in Old Audio Stores. These AR's are extremely easy to convert to a Linn configuation by replacing the massive noisy AR capstan motor & pulley with a $5.00 clock motor & appropriate pulley, using Dental Floss for the drive belt.

    The Linn drive system is extremely quiet since the clock motor armature mass is extremely small compared to the mass of the platter, aka a very high ratio of "platter mass" to the "tiny mass" of the clock motor rotor equates to a very efficient mechanical filter. It is equivalent to flipping a pea against a brick __ there isn't enough kenetic energy stored in the tiny mass of the pea in motion to budge that brick. The Linn suspension system also is very simple to duplicate.

    The Linn is superb with the original "Itock inc,." Arm and other equivalents laying around in closets of people that buy the latest kilo-buck arms or thier trade-in's on massive home theater systems. Most High End dealers are very flexible with their pricing. My best, herki [QUOTE/]

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    Moderator hjames's Avatar
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    Thanks for the informative additions to the older thread! Please, tell me more!
    We have Emma's AR-XB in the attic while my Denon DP-45F is the table that's been connected downstairs -
    but if the XB is reasonably easy to update to such performance, I'll pull it out and dig into it!


    Quote Originally Posted by herki the cat View Post
    [Quote " I just came off as stupid,"] I would say"not really," My sincere apologies, it was not your fault that I failed to include the 4 year old post date. I was mired up in a "heads up" lookout for these AR's with the same superb quiet Linn record platter. These AR's still show up in Church Rumage Sales including Estate Sales of our contemporaries down-sizing to move to retirement comunities, and Yard Sales, the Goodwill Stores, and Trade in Old Audio Stores. These AR's are extremely easy to convert to a Linn configuation by replacing the massive noisy AR capstan motor & pulley with a $5.00 clock motor & appropriate pulley, using Dental Floss for the drive belt.

    The Linn drive system is extremely quite since the clock motor armature mass is extremely small compared to the mass of the platter, aka a very high ratio of "platter mass" to the "tiny mass" of the clock motor rotor equates to a very efficient mecanical filter. It is equivalent to flipping a pea against a brick __ there isn't enough kenetic energy stored in the tiny mass of the pea in motion to budge that brick. The Linn suspension system also is very simple to duplicate.

    The Linn is superb with the original "Itock inc,." Arm and other equivalents laying around in closets of people that buy the latest kilo-buck arms or thier trade-in's on massive home theater systems. Most High End dealers are very flexible with pricing. My best, herki [QUOTE/]
    2ch: WiiM Pro; Topping E30 II DAC; Oppo, Acurus RL-11, Acurus A200, JBL Dynamics Project - Offline: L212-TwinStack, VonSchweikert VR-4
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    Senior Member herki the cat's Avatar
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    Weathers Turntable

    Quote Originally Posted by 10 Watt Street View Post
    Herki,Is this the Weathers turntable you are referring to:http://www.surplussales.com/Equipment/Audio.html
    POSITIVELY, This is the awesome PAUL WEATHERS TURNTABLE !!! It looks like some one who knows his business has found an inventory of Weathers products. You could not want or need a better turntable than a Linn, or this one placed over a twenty pound slab of marble or granite resting on a five inch bed of sand or lead shot in an open wooden box for rumble isolation from your speakers.

    In this LINK=http://www.surplussales.com/Equipment/Audio.html you will see a complete image of the Weathers Turntable, & some replacement parts including the "Compass Technical lnc.", clock motors costing $15,00 each.

    These clock motors are perfect for up grading the AR XB Turntable herki[quote/]

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    Surplus Sales has had them listed on their website for approx. 10 years. I believe their stock is NOS.

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    Senior Member Audiobeer's Avatar
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    I'm still hoping Emma will want to sell Hers. If not what do you folks think is the best bang for the buck for a new plug and play under $500?

  10. #10
    Senior Member Audiobeer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 10 Watt Street View Post
    Surplus Sales has had them listed on their website for approx. 10 years. I believe their stock is NOS.
    I'm wondering what kind of work would be needed on a NOS turntable sitting in it's original box for almost 50 years?

  11. #11
    Senior Member herki the cat's Avatar
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    50 Year Old Weathers Turntable

    Quote Originally Posted by Audiobeer View Post
    I'm wondering what kind of work would be needed on a NOS turntable sitting in it's original box for almost 50 years?
    My old 1950's Weathers Turntable in original condition still works just fine.

    For those offered by Surplussales Inc., the worst possible could be perhaps, the rubber parts aka, the platter mat which you can replace with a Cork Sheet from Pep Boys, the little rubber capstan you can carve out of a soft Rubber Eraser (Been There); the Weathers Rubber Tone Arm Mounting Base "hardening," with age actually is an asset. Consider cleaning and lubricating the platter shaft and the tone arm mounting base shaft and just a small drop of sewing machine oil in the bearings of the twoCompass Technical Inc., 33 RPM & 45 RPM motors costing $15.00 each. What! you are still waiting, Go for it! herki[QUOTE/]

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    Moderator hjames's Avatar
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    Herki, thanks for all the tech notes, and for the memories ...
    Now I've just got to pull Em's AR-XB out of the attic - and make room for it somewhere!
    (Probably on the L200plus system with the carver receiver...)
    ... tho its also sounding like I want to find a tube amp for that system ...!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Audiobeer View Post
    I'm still hoping Emma will want to sell Hers. If not what do you folks think is the best bang for the buck for a new plug and play under $500?
    REGA RP1, $445 complete with Ortofon OM5e installed and aligned. Steve Daniels/Sound Org, the US Distributor, spent a number of years with Linn.

  14. #14
    Moderator hjames's Avatar
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    I had never paid much attention to Emma's AR turntable in the past because I remember a friend in college had an AR-XA that bounced and skipped on anything we played on it ... bad conduction from the floor or whatever!

    I didn't realize Emma's was a different model ...
    So, before breakfast, I went into the attic and pulled it down.

    Amazingly, the dust cover is clean and uncracked!
    of course, it could use some cleaning, and the cartridge is lacking a stylus(!)

    Could also use a mat on the platter.
    Think I have an old heavy rubber audiophile thing somewhere that I didn't use with my Denon ...
    Yep, found it! a snug fit ...

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  15. #15
    Senior Member herki the cat's Avatar
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    AR-XA / AR-XB bouncing and skipping

    Quote Originally Posted by hjames View Post
    I had never paid much attention to Emma's AR turntable in the past because I remember a friend in college had an AR-XA that bounced and skipped on anything we played on it ... bad conduction from the floor or whatever!
    I didn't realize Emma's was a different model ... So, before breakfast, I went into the attic and pulled it down.[ATTACH]53825
    Revised 6:00:am 11/28/11

    Supporting the platter bearing and the tone arm mounting base__ my AR-XA has a two inch wide "T" sub chassis with an very stiff coil spring at each extremity of the "T" plus an aged, shrunken out of shape, chunk of foam for damping in each coil spring in vertical motion.

    This suspension system does nothing to prevent this 10 pound assembly from rocking violently out of control in the horizontal plane and vertical direction at a rate, approx' (10) HZ per second. A good high-end design will feature a rate of (1 to 3) Hz per second traditionally addressed with some form of viscus damping. Otherwise, these vertical & horizontal modes will seriously aggravate the identical natural resonance modes of the undamped AR tone arm.

    Worse that, the spring at the end of the long section of the "T" _ where the tone arm mounting is located_ has the same spring compliance as each of the two springs directly under the much heavier platter assembly. All springs should have identical resonant frequency below (1 to 2) Hz to provide damping in vertical motion. This equality is achieved using springs of compliance yielding identical vertical deflection of each spring. This mean equal supported mass and loaded deflection at each spring.

    One other serious problem exists in the AR-AX __ "the drive motor is located on the cabinet top panel"
    allowing horizontal motion of the platter to and from the motor capstan. The motor should be mounted on the sub chassis. This tiny motor only consumes 1.5 watt!

    The best solution is to fasten the sub chassis with little bolts directly to the AR cabinet top panel and adding, internally to the cabinet, equalizing weights located so the entire assembly has identical weight at each corner. This design modification can executed by placing additional incremental weights externally at each corner which can be transfered internally at each corner of the cabinet.

    You should then attach a 20 pound marble slab under the cabinet supported by four highly damped identical springs of_ extreme stiffness in the horizontal plane located in a triangular configuration __ to provide a well damped vertical resonance of some (2 or 3) HZ well separated from the natural typical (10 t0 16) Hz resonance of the tone arm. There are many low cost tiny "dash pot" vertical damping devices similar to the shock mounts in automobiles available in this industry.

    The famous "Oracle" Canadian Turntable has three "spring" towers supporting their sub chassis. The current "Oracle" now features three viscous piston damping devices with awesome results. herki[quote]
    Last edited by herki the cat; 11-28-2011 at 05:23 AM. Reason: NATHA, REIN!

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