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Thread: AR-XB Turntable

  1. #31
    Senior Member herki the cat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by speakerdave View Post
    The AR turntable is very nice. I believe every one had the split table. The outer heavy ring really pounds that light spring suspension when being moved. The elegant simplicity of these tables, both visually and mechanically, made them a real winner in my book. the excitement of anticipating hearing the music better. Still goes on.
    Indeed, speakerdave, Linn deserves beauqoup credit for recognizing the quality of the "split table" and for bringing this gem to our attention. My apologies for having referred to the Linn as a "rip-off" of the AR's. That split platter is extremely well damped and immune to any mechanical excitation.

    I inadvertently struck the edge of my work bench with the heavy outer ring detached from the platter base and the loud high-Q Ringing Resonance took more than 8 to10 seconds to slowly decay to inaudibility in contrast to dead quiet on the RA-T T.

    I had assumed that RA XA / XB Turn Tables would be equipped with a typical powerful high-end drive motor, considering the mass of the RA-XA platter and a mind- set formed during many early years in Radio Broadcast Engineering where the T T is required to come up to full speed instantly after the announcer's introduction to the record.

    Not so, I discovered this week that my RA is equipped with a tiny awesome H. A. Hayden Synchronous Drive Motor, rated at 1.50 Watts, that can't possibly contribute any mechanical noise to any AR Turn Table.

    In 1986, I first heard the Linn on the early original huge Quad Electrostatic Speakers in stereo using the Linn "Itock Arm" equipped with extremely precision bearings that perform like "solid continuous metal" using my EMT XSD-15 Fine-Line Cartridge in a Koetso Head Shell which I had carried into the dealer's store.

    I have never heard a Violin sound "So Authentic You are there & Just simply awesome!" you could hear the rosin on the bow.

    Ca suffi com ca, herki[quote.
    Last edited by herki the cat; 11-30-2011 at 05:21 AM. Reason: NATHA

  2. #32
    Dang. Amateur speakerdave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by herki the cat View Post
    Indeed, speakerdave, Linn deserves beauqoup credit for recognizing the quality of the "split table" and for bringing this gem to our attention. My apologies for having referred to the Linn as a "rip-off" of the AR's. That split platter is extremely well damped and immune to any mechanical excitation.

    I inadvertently struck the edge of my work bench with the heavy outer ring detached from the platter base and the loud high-Q Ringing Resonance took more than 8 to10 seconds to slowly decay to inaudibility in contrast to dead quiet on the RA-T T.

    I had assumed that RA XA / XB Turn Tables would be equipped with a typical powerful high-end drive motor, considering the mass of the RA-XA platter and a mind- set formed during many early years in Radio Broadcast Engineering where the T T is required to come up to full speed instantly after the announcer's introduction to the record.

    Not so, I discovered this week that my RA is equipped with a tiny awesome H. A. Hayden Synchronous Drive Motor, rated at 1.50 Watts, that can't possibly contribute any mechanical noise to any AR Turn Table.

    In 1986, I first heard the Linn on the early original huge Quad Electrostatic Speakers in stereo using the Linn "Itock Arm" equipped with extremely precision bearings that perform like "solid continuous metal" using my EMT XSD-15 Fine-Line Cartridge in a Koetso Head Shell which I had carried into the dealer's store.

    I have never heard a Violin sound "So Authentic You are there & Just simply awesome!" you could hear the rosin on the bow.

    Ca suffi com ca, herki[quote.
    Friend Herki,

    When quoting part of what someone has said, it is standard formatting practice for accuracy, not to mention the common courtesy of not misrepresenting someone's statements, to indicate with ellipses where words have been left out, three dots where part of a sentence has been omitted and four when part or all of two or more sentences have not be included in the quotation.

    Your version:
    Originally Posted by speakerdave
    The AR turntable is very nice. I believe every one had the split table. The outer heavy ring really pounds that light spring suspension when being moved. The elegant simplicity of these tables, both visually and mechanically, made them a real winner in my book. the excitement of anticipating hearing the music better. Still goes on.


    The original:

    Quote Originally Posted by speakerdave View Post
    The AR turntable is very nice for the money--though I have no idea what they are selling for now. I ran across several of them back in the day and I believe every one, had the split table. The outer, heavy ring should be removed when moving the table around at all, and certainly for shipping. It really pounds that light spring suspension when being moved. Yes, they were a problem on springy floors; I learned to walk past them without dislodging the stylus, but was less successful training roommates. The elegant simplicity of these tables, both visually and mechanically--at a marvelously low price point--made them a real winner in my book. I sold my last one to use a Philips. I can't remember why. The Philips might have had arm lift. Were it not for my Thorens 125 MkII, I'd be looking for one, since my idea about vinyl is basic unobtrusive functionality. One day in the late sixties or early seventies I picked up a kid hitchhiking in Marin county. During the conversation it developed that he was on his way down to the post office to pick up his new AR turntable he'd ordered from some mail order house. He was pretty excited, pleased and joyful about it. That was hi fi for me, the excitement of anticipating hearing the music better. Still goes on, I guess.
    Your version is above. Here is the proper and necessary way to punctuate it:

    Quote Originally Posted by speakerdave View Post
    The AR turntable is very nice . . . . I believe every one had the split table. The outer, heavy ring . . . . really pounds that light spring suspension when being moved . . . . The elegant simplicity of these tables, both visually and mechanically . . . made them a real winner in my book . . . . the excitement of anticipating hearing the music better . . . . [s]till goes on . . . .
    This makes it obvious that there have been extensive deletions and that the quoter has gone through and selected a part of the words and omitted an unknown number. With this fact fairly represented the sense of the selection will be attributed to the quoter and not the quoted, necessarily. I'm not saying you misrepresented me in this instance, but it was a bit jarring to me to see my words, attributed to me, being highly modified with no indication of the quoter's role in the shaping of the final form. Please learn and follow this practice.

    Thanks,

    David

  3. #33
    Heather [Senorita member] hjames's Avatar
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    Just an FYI - I pulled the TT down off the cabinet, tied down the tonearm, flipped it over, and slid off the bottom.
    While in there I pulled off the locknuts and stuffed some extra foam into the suspension springs, then reassembled.

    I did note there is no clearance between the bearing wells and the bottom cover -
    that kills my plan to slip a slate floor tile in there for added mass.

    Anyway, I flipped it back over and put it in place - popped a spirit level on the top plate
    and slipped some thin foam under the front edge of the base to level it.

    Pulled out and played old vinyl - The Doors ...
    seems to be immune to floor walking now,
    even with that old Osawa cart ...

    I do have an Audio Technica 120E cart on the way (a cyber Monday deal), plus a small digital scale ...
    also some Parts Express RCA plugs to install on the back of the plinth so I can replace those
    original cheap interconnects with a pair of the (philips) Seawolf Specials ...

    Time will tell!
    2ch - Oppo981, JoLida502, JBL L200+, KEF 105.4
    HT7- XDA-2, BDP93, 4b NRB, B&K 5ch amp, Vandy 3A, 2Ce, VCC1, TF600 & JBL 4641

  4. #34
    Senior Member SEAWOLF97's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by speakerdave View Post
    Friend Herki,

    When quoting part of what someone has said, it is standard formatting practice for accuracy, not to mention the common courtesy of not misrepresenting someone's statements, to indicate with ellipses where words have been left out, three dots where part of a sentence has been omitted and four when part or all of two or more sentences have not be included in the quotation
    ....

    This makes it obvious that there have been extensive deletions and that the quoter has gone through and selected a part of the words and omitted an unknown number. With this fact fairly represented the sense of the selection will be attributed to the quoter and not the quoted, necessarily. I'm not saying you misrepresented me in this instance, but it was a bit jarring to me to see my words, attributed to me, being highly modified with no indication of the quoter's role in the shaping of the final form. Please learn and follow this practice.

    Thanks,

    David
    Good advise Dave, I too have been guilty of mangled quotes in the past.

    One other thing, mebbe a mod could move off all posts from #2 on ..to
    a new thread in a correct forum. ?
    Idealism is what precedes experience, and cynicism is what follows


  5. #35
    Heather [Senorita member] hjames's Avatar
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    Sorry Tom - didn't mean to run with this all over your thread.
    Good luck with your sale (grin) ... nice looking table!


    Quote Originally Posted by SEAWOLF97 View Post
    Good advise Dave, I too have been guilty of mangled quotes in the past.

    One other thing, mebbe a mod could move off all posts from #2 on ..to
    a new thread in a correct forum. ?
    2ch - Oppo981, JoLida502, JBL L200+, KEF 105.4
    HT7- XDA-2, BDP93, 4b NRB, B&K 5ch amp, Vandy 3A, 2Ce, VCC1, TF600 & JBL 4641

  6. #36
    Heather [Senorita member] hjames's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SEAWOLF97 View Post
    the sale of course was 4 years ago ...as for nice looking, I wouldn't use one of those , I have much better TT's ( 4 active ones in the house) and the AR TT was a cheap ( $78 ?? as I remember) product to start out with and just mid-fi even when brand new.

    All my TT's are DD , I don't buy into the "belt drive is better" line and the AR has a rather primitive arm to boot.



    Please don't respond with a point by point rebuttal , those are just my own personal opinions.
    Sure it's long gone - I remember when you posted the ad (I've been here for the whole conversation).

    I wouldn't dream of a rebuttal for ya - this was Emma's college TT I'm sorting out, never bought an AR myself!
    My high school friend had an AR-XA - but I wound up with a Thorens with an SME arm way back then ...
    and I got rid of that back in the early 80s ...

    As we've discussed before, my main table is the Denon DP-45F I bought new,
    but I'm mostly a fan of SACDs and those smaller size discs anyway ...
    2ch - Oppo981, JoLida502, JBL L200+, KEF 105.4
    HT7- XDA-2, BDP93, 4b NRB, B&K 5ch amp, Vandy 3A, 2Ce, VCC1, TF600 & JBL 4641

  7. #37
    Senior Member SEAWOLF97's Avatar
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    I too have a Denon DP-45F ..mine has a DL-160 high o/p MC cart and its a very good rig....it impressed me enough that I then found a DP-60L , which is about 2-3 quality levels higher..its fitted with the Shure V-15 V from Mr.W ...a real keeper

    Also a Pioneer PL-530 with a V-15 T3 and a Technics SL-M2 with a Grado. I've put a lot of time and effort into making these 4 run as well as they can, and yesteryears tables get moved off to CL. I think the table upgrading is over at this point, unless a higher quality comes along at a screaming great price.

    The prettier Denons are out in the LR and the other 2 are daily drivers in my BR office.

    Old AR TT's are not on my radar as there are so many better competitors in the same price range.


    My son was here visiting from Chicago last week ... he gathered up all his old CD's and MM'ed them home to trade them in on vinyl .... Lp's are VERY "IN" for the 30ish Hipster crowd, and he's really enjoying records.

    I passed abt 60 of my dupe records to him ...there is just a great vibe when your kids value and use your audio "pass ons"
    Idealism is what precedes experience, and cynicism is what follows


  8. #38
    Heather [Senorita member] hjames's Avatar
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    Got some chassis RCA connectors from parts express to do a connector upgrade I had seen on John's Weather page -
    http://johnsweather.com/Turntable.html

    The AR-XB originally brought the tone arm's phono wires out to solder points on a terminal strip,
    and had crimp on connectors at the ends of the original interconnect cables.
    It made sense to get rid of the tarnished old crimp-ons and make all the internal connections clean solder joints.
    Once I had drilled and mounted the RCA connectors on the back of the base,
    I used a spare pair of the philips interconnects (thanks Tom!)
    to replace the tired old cheap ones AR had originally used.

    Still waiting for the digital scale before I mount up the new Audio Technica cart.
    2ch - Oppo981, JoLida502, JBL L200+, KEF 105.4
    HT7- XDA-2, BDP93, 4b NRB, B&K 5ch amp, Vandy 3A, 2Ce, VCC1, TF600 & JBL 4641

  9. #39
    Senior Member herki the cat's Avatar
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    QUOTE=SEAWOLF97;196135]One of the nicest classic AR turntables that you will find...plays super (2 speeds)..includes good dustcover and EMPIRE 66 QE/X cart/needle. This has the cueing that the XA model didn't have...PM me if intereested.for shipping estimate, just calc 15 pounds from 97233/also have a second one that needs cleaning and has no arm if anyone is interested... [/QUOTE]


    It it is not common knowledge that "the AR Turntable platter is identical to the fantastic 'Linn Turntable Platter." The Linn turntable also uses a tiny clock motor, & a belt drive plus a very efficient simple chassis suspension. This AR platter is dead quite & does not ring like a bell, because it is a "two-component platter design mounted on the main shaft supporting a 6 inch diameter aluminum inner platter with a 1/4 inch step outer-diameter coupled to a 12 inch diameter outer platter with a matching 6 inch hole completing the 12 inch platter design copied from the AR Turntable. __ Take the mat of the AR platter to see this construction.

    The word in RCA Camden stated by the late genius, Mr. Al. Witchy __Co-inventor of the famous "Perry Como RCA Bk-10 Microphone," and the post WW-2 Photophone Permanent Magnet 3 inch Phenolic High Frequency Horn Drivers superseding RCA's MI-1428 HF Driver was, quote: "you achieve very llttle damping by coating metal horns etc, with tar and felt materials. You need a gap, however thin, in metal structures to kill the metal ringing like a bell."

    Perry Como had a very soft voice requiring an ultra directional microphone __ the RCA-BK-10 created for Perry__ which could be positioned back out of view of the TV Studio cameras. ...herki [QUOTE/]

  10. #40
    Senior Member SEAWOLF97's Avatar
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    its funny that this thread was restarted on the same day that I sold my latest AR-Xb ...it has already
    been overhauled and is back up on CL again ..the guy did a lot of work for only a little profit.

    http://portland.craigslist.org/clk/ele/2996512131.html

    I did grab a rather cheesy Thorens TD-190 that is a 3 speed and has a good
    Ortofon OM-78 (yup, a 78 rpm mono cart)
    Idealism is what precedes experience, and cynicism is what follows


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