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Thread: AR-XB Turntable

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    Senior Member herki the cat's Avatar
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    AR-XB Turntable

    QUOTE=SEAWOLF97;196135]One of the nicest classic AR turntables that you will find...plays super (2 speeds)..includes good dustcover and EMPIRE 66 QE/X cart/needle. This has the cueing that the XA model didn't have...PM me if intereested.for shipping estimate, just calc 15 pounds from 97233/also have a second one that needs cleaning and has no arm if anyone is interested, does have DC[/QUOTE]It it is not common knowledge that "the AR Turntable platter is identical to the fantastic 'Linn Turntable Platter." The Linn turntable also uses a tiny clock motor, & a string drive belt plus a very efficient simple chassis suspension. This AR platter is dead quite & does not ring like a bell, because it is a "two-component platter design,"__ mounted on the main shaft __ supporting a 6 inch diameter aluminum center disc with a 1/4 inch step outer-diameter coupled to a 12 inch diameter disc "ring" with a matching 6 inch hole completing the 12 inch platter design "ripped off " from the linn turntable. __ Take the mat of the AR platter to see this construction.

    The word in RCA Camden stated by the late genius, Mr. Al. Witchy __Co-inventor of the famous "Perry Como RCA Bk-10 Microphone," and the post WW-2 Photophone Permanent Magnet 3 inch Phenolic High Frequency Horn Drivers superseding RCA's MI-1428 HF Drivers__ was, quote: "you achieve very llttle damping by coating metal horns etc, with tar and felt materials. You need a gap, however thin, in metal structures to kill the metal ringing like a bell."

    Perry Como had a very soft voice requiring an ultra directional microphone __ the RCA-BK-10 created for Perry__ which could be positioned back out of view of the TV Studio cameras. ...herki [QUOTE/]

  2. #2
    Senior Member Audiobeer's Avatar
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    PM sent!

  3. #3
    Senior Member herki the cat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Audiobeer View Post
    PM sent!
    PM to Whom?

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    Senior Member Audiobeer's Avatar
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    That's freakin funny, I saw your response to a 4 year old post and assumed it was a new thread for the turntable sale. So I PM'd Seawolf and got a response rather quickly that he sold it almost 4 years ago. I tried to recover by telling him that it was my 3G phone that took so long to get the message through, but he's not buying it. I just came off as stupid.

  5. #5
    Senior Member herki the cat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Audiobeer View Post
    That's freakin funny, I saw your response to a 4 year old post and assumed it was a new thread for the turntable sale. So I PM'd Seawolf and got a response rather quickly that he sold it almost 4 years ago. I tried to recover by telling him that it was my 3G phone that took so long to get the message through, but he's not buying it. I just came off as stupid.
    [Quote " I just came off as stupid,"] I would say"not really," My sincere apologies, it was not your fault that I failed to include the 4 year old post date. I was mired up in a "heads up" lookout for these AR's with the same superb quiet Linn record platter. These AR's still show up in Church Rumage Sales including Estate Sales of our contemporaries down-sizing to move to retirement comunities, and Yard Sales, the Goodwill Stores, and Trade in Old Audio Stores. These AR's are extremely easy to convert to a Linn configuation by replacing the massive noisy AR capstan motor & pulley with a $5.00 clock motor & appropriate pulley, using Dental Floss for the drive belt.

    The Linn drive system is extremely quiet since the clock motor armature mass is extremely small compared to the mass of the platter, aka a very high ratio of "platter mass" to the "tiny mass" of the clock motor rotor equates to a very efficient mechanical filter. It is equivalent to flipping a pea against a brick __ there isn't enough kenetic energy stored in the tiny mass of the pea in motion to budge that brick. The Linn suspension system also is very simple to duplicate.

    The Linn is superb with the original "Itock inc,." Arm and other equivalents laying around in closets of people that buy the latest kilo-buck arms or thier trade-in's on massive home theater systems. Most High End dealers are very flexible with their pricing. My best, herki [QUOTE/]

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    Heather [Senorita member] hjames's Avatar
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    Thanks for the informative additions to the older thread! Please, tell me more!
    We have Emma's AR-XB in the attic while my Denon DP-45F is the table that's been connected downstairs -
    but if the XB is reasonably easy to update to such performance, I'll pull it out and dig into it!


    Quote Originally Posted by herki the cat View Post
    [Quote " I just came off as stupid,"] I would say"not really," My sincere apologies, it was not your fault that I failed to include the 4 year old post date. I was mired up in a "heads up" lookout for these AR's with the same superb quiet Linn record platter. These AR's still show up in Church Rumage Sales including Estate Sales of our contemporaries down-sizing to move to retirement comunities, and Yard Sales, the Goodwill Stores, and Trade in Old Audio Stores. These AR's are extremely easy to convert to a Linn configuation by replacing the massive noisy AR capstan motor & pulley with a $5.00 clock motor & appropriate pulley, using Dental Floss for the drive belt.

    The Linn drive system is extremely quite since the clock motor armature mass is extremely small compared to the mass of the platter, aka a very high ratio of "platter mass" to the "tiny mass" of the clock motor rotor equates to a very efficient mecanical filter. It is equivalent to flipping a pea against a brick __ there isn't enough kenetic energy stored in the tiny mass of the pea in motion to budge that brick. The Linn suspension system also is very simple to duplicate.

    The Linn is superb with the original "Itock inc,." Arm and other equivalents laying around in closets of people that buy the latest kilo-buck arms or thier trade-in's on massive home theater systems. Most High End dealers are very flexible with pricing. My best, herki [QUOTE/]
    2ch - Oppo981, JoLida502, JBL L200+, KEF 105.4
    HT7- XDA-2, BDP93, 4b NRB, B&K 5ch amp, Vandy 3A, 2Ce, VCC1, TF600 & JBL 4641

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    Senior Member Audiobeer's Avatar
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    Heather you don't have enough time for this project. Do you need my shipping address?

  8. #8
    Heather [Senorita member] hjames's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Audiobeer View Post
    Heather you don't have enough time for this project. Do you need my shipping address?
    maybe so - but its Emma's turntable - she's kept it since college so she's in no rush to selll

    But - wanna buy some Magneplanars??
    They're crowding the others ...
    (The DQ10s are going up for sale in a bit too ...)
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    2ch - Oppo981, JoLida502, JBL L200+, KEF 105.4
    HT7- XDA-2, BDP93, 4b NRB, B&K 5ch amp, Vandy 3A, 2Ce, VCC1, TF600 & JBL 4641

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    Senior Member herki the cat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hjames View Post
    Thanks for the informative additions to the older thread! Please, tell me more! We have Emma's AR-XB in the attic while my Denon DP-45F is the table that's been connected downstairs - but if the XB is reasonably easy to update to such performance, I'll pull it out and dig into it!
    Originally Posted by Audiobeer Heather you don't have enough time for this project. Do you need my shipping address? [Quote/]

    Not to worry, Audiobeer, there are plenty of these AR's in people's attics .... I have one and my son in law has a brand new one gathering dust and he couldn't care less; he's had it with LP's, and he is happy with 10,000 CD's

    Heather, it is very easy to up grade the AR's__ first look at the XB to verify that your model does have the two piece platter that splits apart by lifting the outer section of the platter. The most __not very__ difficult item is having a capstan machined for the new quiet clock motor with the required belt driving dameter, typical cost = $30.00. You can expect both the AR obsolete capstan monster motor & the new Clock motor to operate at the same constant speed, synchronized to the AC power 60 Hz frequency.

    Therefore the new capstan for the replacment clock motor can be machined with the same belt-driving diameter of the orignal old monstor motor capstan.Note: if both motors do no have identical RPM ratings, you can easily fabricate a new capstan diameter comparing the ratio of "new" to the "old capstan" diameters in accord with the ratio of the RPM Ratings of the "new clock motor" to the "old monstor motor".

    Other than this, you may be able to examine a friend's Linn for motor data and measurement of the capstan belt drive diameter.

    As for the funky simple suspension of the linn, you will achieve a supirior system adding significant mass to the underside of the old AR, aka a two inch thick slab of marble resting on five inches of lead shot or sand in an open wooden box. herki[QUOTE/]

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    Senior Member herki the cat's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Hjames [Quote/]= "If the XB is reasonably easy to update to such performance, I'll pull it out and dig into it![Quote/]


    Heather, Been thinking about my first high end turntable circa 1953 when you folks were probably only a glint in someone's eye. Paul Weathers left RCA with a patent based on an "FM Mono LP Cartridge" which to this day, Harry Pearson, publisher of "The Absolute Sound" always said: "This is my all time Preferred Mono Cartridge." The Weathers Tone Arm made from Balsa Wood was dead quiet and perfectly stable.

    Paul Weathers marketed a very simple high-end turntable with a low mass 12 inch platter stamped out of 1/16 inch aluminum with a very well damped mat loaded with tungsten dust using the same Clock Motor ripped off by Linn; these industrial grade motors with a 1/16 inch diameter shaft are available in a wide range of RPM. My hot air furnace humidifier uses one of these motors to rotate an 8 inch diameter "wet foam" drum at (1) RPM.

    Paul Weathers crafted a very reliable capstan of 0.75 inch diameter, 1/8 inch thick, tapered to 1/16 inch at the diameter edge from a very compliant rubber eraser. He poked a hole in the center with a needle and slipped it on to the motor shaft. His speaker systems used the RCA 1950's LC-12 wide range 12 inch speakers with a one inch voice coil driving a low mass curvilinear cone whose diameter decreases as the frequency increases. The functioning cone diameter is about two inches at 10,000 Hz

    Paul Weathers went on to develop an excellent high end piezo electric playback cartridge which was "dead flat" beyond 20,000 Hz, and superior to any existing moving coil cartridge prior to the current kilo-buck products. I still have my original Weathers Turntable.

    BTHW, Mr. J. Gordon Holt who founded Stereophile in the fall of 1962 was a technician in Paul Weather's firm where he also published a popular technical periodical until he moved on to start Stereophile. Mr. Holt left Stereophile October 1999 to free lance and do some self-publishing with plans to express his thoughts on audio related matters in The Absolute Sound. heriki [QUOTE/]

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    Herki,
    Is this the Weathers turntable you are referring to:

    http://www.surplussales.com/Equipment/Audio.html

  12. #12
    Senior Member herki the cat's Avatar
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    Weathers Turntable

    Quote Originally Posted by 10 Watt Street View Post
    Herki,Is this the Weathers turntable you are referring to:http://www.surplussales.com/Equipment/Audio.html
    POSITIVELY, This is the awesome PAUL WEATHERS TURNTABLE !!! It looks like some one who knows his business has found an inventory of Weathers products. You could not want or need a better turntable than a Linn, or this one placed over a twenty pound slab of marble or granite resting on a five inch bed of sand or lead shot in an open wooden box for rumble isolation from your speakers.

    In this LINK=http://www.surplussales.com/Equipment/Audio.html you will see a complete image of the Weathers Turntable, & some replacement parts including the "Compass Technical lnc.", clock motors costing $15,00 each.

    These clock motors are perfect for up grading the AR XB Turntable herki[quote/]

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    Surplus Sales has had them listed on their website for approx. 10 years. I believe their stock is NOS.

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    Senior Member Audiobeer's Avatar
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    I'm still hoping Emma will want to sell Hers. If not what do you folks think is the best bang for the buck for a new plug and play under $500?

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    Senior Member Audiobeer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 10 Watt Street View Post
    Surplus Sales has had them listed on their website for approx. 10 years. I believe their stock is NOS.
    I'm wondering what kind of work would be needed on a NOS turntable sitting in it's original box for almost 50 years?

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