Page 5 of 11 FirstFirst ... 34567 ... LastLast
Results 61 to 75 of 154

Thread: High cost Speaker wire, interconnectors and upgraded power cords?

  1. #61
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Christchurch, NZ
    Posts
    1,469
    Hi power hi Freq coax has been using pipes for years, a lot of years. Hi current and hi frequency likes to travel down the outside of a conductor. The tiddling amounts of voltage and current that audio uses, is not worth the bother.

    Allan.

  2. #62
    Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Athens, GA
    Posts
    68
    Quote Originally Posted by Ducatista47 View Post
    Not quite. Magnet wire insulation, even double coated, would be thinner by one or more orders of magnitude. It makes great speaker wire as long as it does not need to be flexible.
    Flexibility is a virtue, though. A few years ago I bought some 14AWG solid core "audiophile" speaker wire. (I paid basically the scrap value of the copper, though before the firm was bought out I think it went for $50 or so per foot.) It is unwieldy and annoying to use. Now I only use it inside cabinets.

    Also, how thick does magnet wire come? For monoblocs behind speakers that might not matter, but for more typical installations (say, 10'-20' runs) with typical speakers (8Ω nominal, 3-4Ω minimum, impedance) one should really use 16AWG, or at the outside 18AWG.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Mackenzie View Post
    In the case of almost all consumer audio amplifiers binding posts are standard and enable the use of a wide range of cables. Speakon is NOT.
    For those who really care about superior connections, equipment can be modded. After all, audiophools do all kinds of pointless mods to their various parts. At least this one would provide some utility.

    Or one can use "professional" amplification.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Mackenzie View Post
    Most now adhere to EC standards. Most consumers twist the stranded cable and then attempt to tighten the binding post down on the strands. It comes loose and the contact quickly oxidizes.

    This is not satisfactory and I refer to the link below.
    Actually, that typically works just fine, so long as one is careful to ensure that stray strands don't end up shorting terminals together. (Yet another issue precluded by use of SpeakOns...) The oxidation just isn't an issue. The only difference between bare wire and a banana is that a banana is more convenient to take out/plug in. The only difference between bare wire and a spade is...with a spade you have to buy a bit of metal to put between the post and the wire.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Mackenzie View Post
    The speakon is a Pro audio twist on / off connector.
    "Pro" audio versus "home" audio is more a marketing distinction than anything else. People on a JBL forum should really know that! The bottom line is, the SpeakOn is a better connector, for the above-ennumerated reasons. Now, is there a sonic difference between a SpeakOn-terminated speaker wire and spades/bananas/pins/tinned-wire/bare-wire? No. But the SpeakOn has practical advantages over the other ones. And they're cheap. So (especially on DIY projects) there's really no reason to futz with antiquated and comparatively fussy "hifi" connectors.

  3. #63
    Senior Member tom1356's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Boston
    Posts
    124
    I have a pair of B & W Silver signatures. They use silver throughout. speaker wires, voice coils, inductors, capacitors, biding posts, everything.
    If I substitute a very high quality copper wire for the factory silver ones there is a dramatic and noticeable degradation of the sound.
    I'm talking about copper wires that are about $60 per ft each side.

    Be thankful you can't hear a difference or figure out why.

  4. #64
    Administrator Mr. Widget's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    San Francisco
    Posts
    9,983
    Quote Originally Posted by tom1356 View Post
    I have a pair of B & W Silver signatures. They use silver throughout. speaker wires, voice coils, inductors, capacitors, biding posts, everything.
    If I substitute a very high quality copper wire for the factory silver ones there is a dramatic and noticeable degradation of the sound.
    I'm talking about copper wires that are about $60 per ft each side.

    Be thankful you can't hear a difference or figure out why.
    Thank god I'm deaf!

    Or is it something else.


    Widget

  5. #65
    Senior Member Ian Mackenzie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    7,129
    Quote Originally Posted by DS-21 View Post
    Flexibility is a virtue, though.


    For those who really care about superior connections, equipment can be modded. After all, audiophools do all kinds of pointless mods to their various parts. At least this one would provide some utility.

    Or one can use "professional" amplification.



    "Pro" audio versus "home" audio is more a marketing distinction than anything else. People on a JBL forum should really know that!
    I hope you are a better engineer then you are a banker!

  6. #66
    Senior Member tom1356's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Boston
    Posts
    124
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Widget View Post
    Thank god I'm deaf!

    Or is it something else.


    Widget

    You seem to be happy with your system and I am happy with mine so it's all good.

  7. #67
    Senior Member Eaulive's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Back in Montreal
    Posts
    1,204
    Quote Originally Posted by tom1356 View Post
    I have a pair of B & W Silver signatures. They use silver throughout. speaker wires, voice coils, inductors, capacitors, biding posts, everything.
    If I substitute a very high quality copper wire for the factory silver ones there is a dramatic and noticeable degradation of the sound.
    I'm talking about copper wires that are about $60 per ft each side.
    Your B&Ws must be broken and you need the high resolution of copper to hear it
    My avatar: 4520 loaded with 2225H on E140 frames,
    1x B&C 12PE32 on custom front loaded horn, 2x 2426 on 2370.

  8. #68
    Senior Member DavidF's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    San Jose CA
    Posts
    918
    Quote Originally Posted by tom1356 View Post
    I have a pair of B & W Silver signatures. They use silver throughout. speaker wires, voice coils, inductors, capacitors, biding posts, everything.
    If I substitute a very high quality copper wire for the factory silver ones there is a dramatic and noticeable degradation of the sound.
    I'm talking about copper wires that are about $60 per ft each side.

    Be thankful you can't hear a difference or figure out why.
    Whoa. Thankfully I am in the 99-something-percent that couldn't hear that difference! Seen the the price of silver lately? I don't sh*# dollars.
    David F
    San Jose

  9. #69
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Christchurch, NZ
    Posts
    1,469
    I guess the Silver verse copper debate will go on forever. Although silver is a better conductor than copper, it is only marginally so. !.59 x 10 -8 as opposed to 1.68 x 10 -8. Some people have referred to silver cables as an "emotional" upgrade.....

    Jumping back to using pipes, it was discovered way back that HF likes to travel down the outside of a conductor. Quite simply, the metal in the middle of the conductor, is a waste of money so they started using pipes. It is not that it is better, it just makes good economic sense.

    Allan.

  10. #70
    Senior Member Uncle Paul's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Oregon City, Oregon, USA
    Posts
    374
    Quote Originally Posted by Allanvh5150 View Post
    Jumping back to using pipes, it was discovered way back that HF likes to travel down the outside of a conductor. Quite simply, the metal in the metal is a waste of money so they started using pipes. It is not that it is better, it just makes good economic sense.
    It's important to note that the frequencies where this takes place is WAY above the audio frequency range.

    I'm happy to be one of those people who either are objective enough or deficient enough in hearing to tell the difference between cables given that they conduct well and don't introduce ill effects due to inductance or capacitance (or some as yet undiscovered "ance"). I stick to well designed basic solutions and prefer to spend my money in areas that get me more mileage for the buck (like more music).
    "Zobel is as zobel does"

  11. #71
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Central Coast California
    Posts
    9,019
    I've heard it said, "You can't enjoy music, sex, or dope without a fat pipe."* Perhaps with all three, Nirvana can be reached.

    *(I might have been the one who said that. It's hard to remember.)
    Out.

  12. #72
    Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Athens, GA
    Posts
    68
    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Mackenzie View Post
    I hope you are a better engineer then you are a banker!
    I take it that means you don't have anything relevant and on topic to write. (But for the record, I am neither banker nor engineer.)

    Quote Originally Posted by tom1356 View Post
    I have a pair of B & W Silver signatures. They use silver throughout. speaker wires, voice coils, inductors, capacitors, biding posts, everything.
    If I substitute a very high quality copper wire for the factory silver ones there is a dramatic and noticeable degradation of the sound.
    I'm talking about copper wires that are about $60 per ft each side.

    Be thankful you can't hear a difference or figure out why.
    No offense, but the only thing one can actually hear from a pair of B&W Silver Sigs is heaping excesses of midrange energy in the room, due to poor engineering. Here is a third-party measurement of their frequency response across the horizontal plane..



    Too bad B&W couldn't see fit to engineer a silver waveguide for the tweeter, to properly match the woofer's directivity in the crossover region...

    (And yes, I've heard them.)

  13. #73
    Senior Member tom1356's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Boston
    Posts
    124
    Quote Originally Posted by DS-21 View Post
    I take it that means you don't have anything relevant and on topic to write. (But for the record, I am neither banker nor engineer.)



    No offense, but the only thing one can actually hear from a pair of B&W Silver Sigs is heaping excesses of midrange energy in the room, due to poor engineering. Here is a third-party measurement of their frequency response across the horizontal plane..



    Too bad B&W couldn't see fit to engineer a silver waveguide for the tweeter, to properly match the woofer's directivity in the crossover region...

    (And yes, I've heard them.)
    No offense taken. I love heaps of midrange energy. That's where the music lives.

  14. #74
    Senior Member SEAWOLF97's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    PDX, ®egon
    Posts
    9,105
    Quote Originally Posted by herki the cat View Post
    You are invited to examine a sober conclusion update of this awesome subject in post # 59, page 2 of this thread.
    If one was to review this thread and count how many times that you've mentioned "MIT",
    well one conclusion comes to mind...

    hope I'm wrong...and pls don't take this as some kind of attack.


    maybe you are just a very very very happy customer ?

    (I did read the now deleted comment abt how the MIT guy owned ALL cable and speaker wire
    patents and thought it somewhat bogus tho)
    “If you think that’s the dumbest thing you’ve ever heard,
    just wait a couple minutes!”

  15. #75
    Senior Member Ian Mackenzie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    7,129
    A lot of people say the same thing everytime they read JBL and that is why they don't post here. I mean look what they did with the brand

    Maybe Herki The Cat is right is right while the audio hoards look at him stupid and poke faces much the way the senate committee look at each other every time they meet to raise the ceiling of the national debt level. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/0..._n_905841.html

    I own an amplifier with hollow core cable in it and I have no reason to believe it sounds bad and no it does not have speakon terminals.

    In this application the internal cables are so short as to not need termination networks that I wrote about in an earlier post.

    This is perhaps the most useful post of the thread as its pretty well acknowledged that hollow core cables present an ideal audio conductor.

    So among the war of words here is MIT again.

    Unfortunately where there is money to be made a lot of wanna be's get in on the act and the substance of an original product becomes less obvious.

    In the mean time the hoards will continue to drive Wal Mart sales


    The history of cables

    According to MIT Inc., patents.... a thin copper pipe 3l8 inch dia works well only because there is no core in the pipe for the signal current to present the important parent audio- signal current magnetic field internally.

    Both Mr.Polk and Mr. Brisson recognized this fact. Polk did produce a good speaker cable featuring a very flexible thin-wall 3/8 inch plastic pipe with a twin cross hatch woven +/- polarity jacket of insulated conductors for two channel stereo. The only problem was excessive shunt capacitor acting within the cable causing feedback amplifier instability; the solution was the Zo-Bel RC shunt on the amplifier output terminals, only if the amplifier was equiped with extended high frequency phase compensation.

    Mr. Brisson's solution, while originally at Monster Cable, was to take a very small rope of nylon (?) and together with his son, wrap many side by side turns around this long rope, slowly stepping out of the door into the street. This became Monster cable.

    Mr. Brisson walked across the street to HP Instruments & found a Spectrum Analyzer capable of measuring phase and amplitude from 10 Hz to 1000 mg Hz including the Audio Band. With this, Mr. Brissen could do every thing to fine tune any cable; we had these all over RCA Camden.

    Mr. Brisson's next step was to wrap a spiral lay of many strands of #30 wire over the nylon rope to inductively slow down the upper frequency spectrum to at least 500 Hz. A second spiral overlay of 15 strands of #21 wire completed the cable from 500 Hz to maybe 50 Hz, and it did sound great..This was one of the first MIT patents.

    I recommend studying Bruce Brisson's patents to see how MIT Inc., And Transparent Audio Inc, a fierce competitor of MIT Inc., became extremely successful essentially with similar cable technology.

    How can a very expensive product that has grown since 1970 be considered a sham by so many intelligent brilliant audio engineers & the (unwashed)... just kiding... enjoy a good laugh.

    Avatar sound was recorded with unobtanium speaker cables from "MIT Interface Technologies Inc."

    The SkyWalker Lucas post production sound venue is 100% equipped with MIT cables which cost $20,000 each. The SkyWalker Lucas theater at SkyWalker Ranch in Calafornia is also equipped with aQty' of (40) power amplifiers back stage feeding a Qty' of (40) JBL Speaker Drivers via 40 foot long MIT cables of the same unobtanium type.

    Not to worry__ the Skywalker Lucas instalation is a "cost no object,"professional business venture. In the following "MIT at the Movies" presentation : "Link," you can view the awsome engineering history of Avatar's making.....Highly recommended.

    Sky Walker has more than 10 Acadamy Award Winning Films with "MIT-Interface" If you enjoyed the Magnificient Skywalker Sound, you must see how they did it in

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. 2402 question (2902 high Freq. power pack)
    By Lutz in forum Lansing Product General Information
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 04-14-2007, 07:38 AM
  2. speaker wire
    By SEAWOLF97 in forum General Audio Discussion
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 02-27-2007, 05:05 PM
  3. STP speaker wire
    By louped garouv in forum Miscellaneous Gear
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 03-10-2006, 08:07 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •