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Thread: Ashley XR-4001 as an active crossover for my JBL 4345 clone project

  1. #1
    Member vannozzi's Avatar
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    Ashley XR-4001 as an active crossover for my JBL 4345 clone project

    Hello All,

    Please give your opinions on the Ashley XR-4001, Electronic 4 way Stereo Crossover to use as a Bi-amp crossover for my JBL 4345 project.

    The prices of the stock JBL 4345 crossovers are prohibitive, at about 2K+ per pair, and hard to find.

    Can I use this Ashley unit only, and delete the passive crossover unit entirely?

    Will it work well in this application?

    Are there better alternitives?

    Please find the item description below. I would very much appreciate Lansing Heritage members responses to this inquirey. Thank you.

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------


    The XR-4001 is a stereo four-way 24dB per octave electronic crossover in a two rack space metal chassis.

    Has separate front panel input level controls on all channels for interfacing with broad range of nominal system levels.

    Each channel has independent, infinitely variable adjustment of crossover frequency with controls located on the front panel.

    Provides a total range of 200:1 when used in conjunction with the unit's adjacent RANGE switch.

    Each RESPONSE control calibrated in decibels on each channel to adjust the damping of that filter at the crossover point, thus allowing variable system response adjustment to specific site requirements.

    Includes separate clip indicators to monitor all internal amplifiers for any possible overload conditions.

    Each channel of the crossover unit has a separate output level control and mute switch located on the front panel.

    Separate inputs and outputs for each channel on 1/4" TRS phone jacks and XLR connectors, any of which may be used balanced or unbalanced.

    In addition, there are independent mono summed output labeled MONO LOW OUT (on a separate 1/4. TRS jack and an XLR jack).


  2. #2
    Obviously... not a golfer grumpy's Avatar
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    You could. A 4345 it would not be, however.

    I would expect with the Ashley and a -good-, multi-band parametric EQ,
    one could create something that sounded pretty darn good, but you
    would also need quite a bit of experience, knowledge, and instrumentation
    to get anywhere near "pretty darn good".

    A better path might be to build (or have built) the 4345 crossovers as custom
    units and bi-amp with a 2-way electronic crossover. There are several such
    builds documented here somewhere, IIRC.
    It's nograveconcern to me, but it appears a fan on AVS "borrowed" my avatar...

  3. #3
    Senior Member Eaulive's Avatar
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    I thought by now, somebody could have measured the original crossover specs to be able to enter them in any DSP.
    Once you know the crossover point, slope, gain, corrective EQ and delay if any, it's easy to program into a DSP engine like the ashley, DBX and consorts.
    My avatar: 4520 loaded with 2225H on E140 frames,
    1x B&C 12PE32 on custom front loaded horn, 2x 2426 on 2370.

  4. #4
    Heather [Senorita member] hjames's Avatar
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    BiAmp implies splitting the signal into Low pass and High pass signals, and using an amp for each of those signals - thus 2 amps -> biamp.

    Many folks are doing something like that with an Ashley XR1001 2 way stereo crossover (or higher quality equivalent)
    set at 290Hz to split off the bass/woofer and feeding the high pass to a passive 3 way for the midBass, 2425/horn combo and slot tweeter.
    Its basically what I'm doing with my (smaller) 4341 4-way monitors.
    Some folks have even gone to custom built Charge Coupled passive crossover for those upper 3 drivers.

    What you are considering is a full active splitting in 4 bands, one for each driver - e.g, QUAD-amp ...
    Don't think I've heard of many folks going that route ...


    Quote Originally Posted by vannozzi View Post
    Hello All,

    Please give your opinions on the Ashley XR-4001, Electronic 4 way Stereo Crossover to use as a Bi-amp crossover for my JBL 4345 project.
    The prices of the stock JBL 4345 crossovers are prohibitive, at about 2K+ per pair, and hard to find.
    Can I use this Ashley unit only, and delete the passive crossover unit entirely?
    Will it work well in this application?
    Are there better alternatives?

    Please find the item description below. I would very much appreciate Lansing Heritage members responses to this inquiry. Thank you.
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------
    The XR-4001 is a stereo four-way 24dB per octave electronic crossover in a two rack space metal chassis.
    2ch - Oppo DV981, JoLida 502, JBL L200+, KEF 105.4
    HT7- Oppo BDP-93, B&K amps, Vandy 2Ce, 2Ci, VCC1, DCM TF600 & 4641

  5. #5
    Member vannozzi's Avatar
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    Ashley XR-4001

    Thanks grumpy, Do you know anyone who could build a pair of 4345 passive crossovers that you could refer me to?

  6. #6
    Member vannozzi's Avatar
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    to hjames

    I dont have an internal passive crossover at all, so dividing the circut in two would not split the frequencies for the 10" speaker , the horn, and the slot tweeter. That is why I'm considering the 4 channel stereo crossover unit.
    Last edited by vannozzi; 11-15-2011 at 08:29 AM. Reason: correction

  7. #7
    Member vannozzi's Avatar
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    Ashley XR-4001

    What about 2- 4 channel amplifiers?

  8. #8
    Obviously... not a golfer grumpy's Avatar
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    I thought by now, somebody could have measured the original crossover specs to be able to enter them in any DSP.
    Once you know the crossover point, slope, gain, corrective EQ and delay if any, it's easy to program into a DSP engine like the ashley, DBX and consorts.
    Sure. I think the curves are posted here, but IIRC, the posted curves are voltage drives
    into a dummy load; not what you need. I would say that "easy" is an understatement,
    and getting a DSP loudspeaker mgmt system that matches the potential of the 4345
    drivers could be a considerable expense. Then there's the issue of volume control for
    all 8 channels...

    Don't think I've heard of many folks going that route ...
    [re 4-way active/analog or digital]

    In addition to the crossovers and any required EQ, you've now added 8ch of
    amplification, cables, etc... as well as "development time" and measurement
    equipment. It can be a bit daunting (and fun... ask Dome ).

    Re who might built custom crossovers, I would suggest that if you don't see any
    volunteers that have read this thread and are interested, you might put a "WTB"
    advert in the Marketplace section. Several members here have demonstrated
    the ability to do a quality crossover build in regard to layout and workmanship.

    If you haven't read any of the DIY 4345 build threads, that would be some good
    homework.
    It's nograveconcern to me, but it appears a fan on AVS "borrowed" my avatar...

  9. #9
    Senior Member Eaulive's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by grumpy View Post
    Sure. I think the curves are posted here, but IIRC, the posted curves are voltage drives into a dummy load; not what you need.
    It's fairly straightforward (OK, not easy) to get a real reading of the voltage at the driver. Then there's phase shift and delay.... not so easy

    Still, with the talent we have on this board, I'm sure getting the DSP tunings for an active 4 way 4345 is feasable.

    Anybody up to the task?
    I could do it but I don't have the golden ears to judge the result.... and I don't have a 4345 handy
    My avatar: 4520 loaded with 2225H on E140 frames,
    1x B&C 12PE32 on custom front loaded horn, 2x 2426 on 2370.

  10. #10
    Member vannozzi's Avatar
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    JBL 4345 Clones crossover networks.

    To grumpy,

    As per your recomendation I have posted a "WTB" message in the Market Place section.

    Thanks, Mike Vannozzi

  11. #11
    Senior Member 1audiohack's Avatar
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    So, how many Mike Vannozzi's are there in Vegas?

    Barry.
    If we knew what the hell we were doing, we wouldn't call it research would we.

  12. #12
    Member vannozzi's Avatar
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    How many Mike Vannozzi's in Vegas?

    Hi,

    Their are 2 Mike Vannozzi's in Las Vegas:

    1) Michael A. Vannozzi Sr. (me), 53 years old, Conservitive, Constitutionilist, Ron Paul supporter, Owner/ Broker of Vegas One Realty & Vegas Associates Realty, 110 employees,
    Abstract Expressionist Artist, Musician, Inventor, Hot Rodder, 53 years old.

    2) Michael A. Vannozzi Jr. (my Son), 26 years old, Liberal, Democrat, Obama supporter, UNLV Student, Employed by The United States Senate, Office of Senator Harry Reid.



  13. #13
    Senior Member 1audiohack's Avatar
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    While that's not a full accounting for either genetics or environment, if you had to guess, where do you think you went wrong?
    If we knew what the hell we were doing, we wouldn't call it research would we.

  14. #14
    Member vannozzi's Avatar
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    Where did I go wrong?

    Where did I go wrong?

    If by this question you are refering to why did my son became a Liberal , while I am a conservitive?

    I believe that my son was indoctrinated into his Liberal mind set first in High School, and then in College.

    In his Senior year of college at UNLV, One of his Liberal professors recomended him to Senator Harry Reid to be a paid student assistant,

    and spend his last semester working in the capitol building in Washington, D.C., writing press releases for Harry Reid.

    When his last semester was finished, Harry Reid offered him a job working in his Las Vegas office.

    My son then worked for the Obama campaign.

    Unfortunately, our differences have come between us, and we no longer talk.

    Years have gone by, and I no longer have any intrest in a relationship with him.

  15. #15
    Senior Member 1audiohack's Avatar
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    I'm really sorry to hear that Mike. I want you to know that I was joking and would not have said that had I any idea of the state of your relationship with your son.

    I have always believed that there is definitely a third component in us besides genetics and environment and in some people it can be a major factor that is unexplainable.

    I truly wish you both all the best,
    Barry.
    If we knew what the hell we were doing, we wouldn't call it research would we.

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