JBL 4425 Questions : JBL 2416H vs. RAdian 1225-8

[louped garouv]

Really wish the search engine worked better here on the site directly...
in the meantime..

Google has syntax to allow for website specific searches...


Apologies in advance that the links a bit cheeky!
http://bit.ly/xCirO1


Short of it is that some people seem to think they are acceptable
Others will insist on genuine JBL
still others are waiting with baited breath, so to speak,
for even more 'hi performance' Be aftermarkets....

If you can somehow listen to the various materials...
It could prove to be beneficial, is the generalized advice

[edgewound]

This is my situation: one of my horns are not working on a newly acquired pair of 4425`s. My search for a replacement diaphragm came up with these three options.
1- OEM D8R2416 @ $300
2- Radian 1225-8 @ 125
3- Aftermarket @ 50

I decided (for the time being) to order two aftermarket units in the interest of getting these speakers up and running asap as they are far too nice to be on static display and that I cannot bare to be without tunes.
So for $100, I`ll be back in business shortly. BTW, this was before I knew of the Radian option.

I chose not to go with OEM because of price and the fear of a major sonic imbalance between a fresh horn and one that can possibly be 20+ years old. It would seem reasonable to assume an old diaphragm would be much more compliant and respond differently than a new one.

Now, in the event I`m not entirely satisfied with the aftermarket units, what are the differences between OEM and Radian units? One can never go wrong with OEM but are the Radians considered to be inferior,equal or superior to OEM?
I would appreciate some guidance!

MSRP on D8R2416 is $212.00ea

I might have a couple in stock for a better price if you're interested in the OEM...I'll have to check to see if I have two. Call or message me if you like.

You can check the OEM price list on my website through the link in my signature.

1-888-990-1049

[edgewound]

MSRP on D8R2416 is $212.00ea

I might have a couple in stock for a better price if you're interested in the OEM...I'll have to check to see if I have two. Call or message me if you like.

You can check the OEM price list on my website through the link in my signature.

1-888-990-1049

Confirmed. I have a pair in stock.

[subwoof]

post a pic of the bad dia so I can see the exact version - I have some of the older 2416H in the used pile. most of the 4425's I have run across have these, not the later 2416H-1

Get a case of bradour in my pocket and I'll send you one..

*cheers*

[Mike F]

MSRP on D8R2416 is $212.00ea

I might have a couple in stock for a better price if you're interested in the OEM...I'll have to check to see if I have two. Call or message me if you like.

You can check the OEM price list on my website through the link in my signature.

1-888-990-1049

Thank you for the reply and kind offer. PM me a price please. I`m a little worried shipping costs from the West Coast may negate any actual savings.

[Mike F]

post a pic of the bad dia so I can see the exact version - I have some of the older 2416H in the used pile. most of the 4425's I have run across have these, not the later 2416H-1

Get a case of bradour in my pocket and I'll send you one..

*cheers*

Great, yet another variable.. I`ll take a look, get a shot of it tomorrow. What are the differences?
In the mean time, I`ll get a shipping quote for the Brador.

[Mike F]

post a pic of the bad dia so I can see the exact version - I have some of the older 2416H in the used pile. most of the 4425's I have run across have these, not the later 2416H-1

Get a case of bradour in my pocket and I'll send you one..

*cheers*

[subwoof]

the magnet core you posted is the 2415 - you can tell by the round "salt pepper" holes in the phase plug. To the best of my knowledge that driver was only used in the very early "G" series MI cabinets...

This was superseded by the 2416 which has the annular slits like all the other JBL drivers and is considered an improvement.

And the 2416H-1 driver's diaphram I think is just a tweaked 2416 with better adhesive and the tiny tiny air pressure relief hole in the back.

So now we need you to post *both* of the magnets to see if there is a difference before we strategize further. While your budget is always of concern, you *do* want to treat your left and right ears fairly..

sub

[Mike F]

the magnet core you posted is the 2415 - you can tell by the round "salt pepper" holes in the phase plug. To the best of my knowledge that driver was only used in the very early "G" series MI cabinets...

This was superseded by the 2416 which has the annular slits like all the other JBL drivers and is considered an improvement.

And the 2416H-1 driver's diaphram I think is just a tweaked 2416 with better adhesive and the tiny tiny air pressure relief hole in the back.

So now we need you to post *both* of the magnets to see if there is a difference before we strategize further. While your budget is always of concern, you *do* want to treat your left and right ears fairly..

sub

The other driver is identical. So you are saying that this is a 2415?
There is no mention of that model on the Radian website in the list of compatable diaphragms
http://radianaudio.com//index.php?pa...mart&Itemid=40

What other JBL models used the 2416? It would appear then that my pair is a later production model, correct? Approximately when did JBL go from the 2416 to the 2415 to get an approximate D.O.B. seing there are no serial numbers anywhere to be found. Sorry for all the questions I`m borderline obsessive compulsive

[subwoof]

the order is 2415H - 2416H - 2416H-1

All have interchangeable parts - it looks like you have the first gen 4425's from 1982 that shared the same drivers as the new MI speaker systems.

Not to fret - simply installing the 2416H diaphram to match the working one will bring these back to 100%. The changes over the next few gens are miniscule and are more related to production methods / expense anyways. These became kickass bookshelve speakers in a hurry and we put a lot of them in DJ booths. And they DID pass the SAF test at home.

PM your ship info soon - I am headed back home after a week's workation but am stopping by the little shop of frozen horrors and will look for a 2416 dia.

sub

[Lee in Montreal]

Just adding to the discussion that Radian is one of the very few suppliers of replacement diaphragms for JBl drivers that offers data comparing their product with an original JBL diaphragm. Priced between an original JBL part and a waste-o-money Chinese knock-off, Radian diaphragms make sense for those who don't seek the exact JBL sound.

http://radianaudio.com//components/c.../1245_1225.pdf

[subwoof]

Many versions / production runs of the 4425 had serial numbers that were just little white stickers stuck onto the input terminal cup - pretty cheap. And nowhere inside the cabinet are ther references to it.

Seems that these were blasted out in high volumes and not stamping the nice aluminum foilcal meant less work...sigh...


BTW the earlier models used the standard 5 way binding posts and the woofer ( 2214H ) had them also.

Later versions used the recessed / angled dual banana posts and the woofer was the 2214H-1 which had the polorized spade connectors.

I have 3 sets of these in various states of use / repair and each is slightly different. Swapping woofers is a PITA with the terminal diff...grrr...

sub

[Rudy Kleimann]

Just adding to the discussion that Radian is one of the very few suppliers of replacement diaphragms for JBl drivers that offers data comparing their product with an original JBL diaphragm. Priced between an original JBL part and a waste-o-money Chinese knock-off, Radian diaphragms make sense for those who don't seek the exact JBL sound.

http://radianaudio.com//components/c.../1245_1225.pdf

I agree with you on the Radians and the cheap chinese knockoffs! See my post re: actual PWT measurements of 2425 driver with Factory-installed JBL diaphragms, Radian dias. and a cheap chinese knockoff:

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbullet...ht=#post325397

Regarding the three variants of JBL drivers and replacement drivers, subwoof has it right. Edgewound and subwoof enlightened me a few years ago (thanks, guys! ) about the "Salt and Pepper shaker" phase plug being from a 2415H driver after I posted pics of pair for sale on ebay asking what they were.

While on the subject, don't be tempted to "upgrade" to the 2417 diaphragm. The 2416 diaphragm is lighter (thinner),has a very tiny diamond pattern stamped into the surround, a different back cap, and about 5 dB more output at 15KHz than previous models (according to the JBL SR Series II catalog).
However, the 2417H phase plug is not as high as the previous models and the 2417 diaphragm will contact the 2415/2416 phase plug before the diaphragm mounting flange seats on the magnet.
The 2415/2416/Radian/aftermarket diaphragms will "fit" the 2417, but I can't imagine them sounding very good due the much greater air space between the diaphragm and the 2417 phase plug.

I proved this while trying to positively identify a 2417 driver I had acquired but, like all of these, has no model number markings on the driver itself. I had a blown 2425 diaphragm (no cover) that I dropped onti the 2417 and pressed down on the diaphragm to check phase plug clearance. It seems to be enormous! got out a 2416H driver and put the 2425 diaphragm on it to check phase plug clearance, and it was close- as it should be. I then took a 2417 diaphragm and gently lowered it onto the 2416 driver until it teetered on the phase plug. That was enough to convince me that I indeed had a 2417 driver and ordered a new JBL diaphragm for it.


Prior to this the only known clue to ID a 2417 was a slightly rounded outer edge to the magnet top plate stamping, but that apparently does not hold true.. I bought one on ebay that was purported to be a 2417, but looked exactly like the 2416's sharply defined top plate edge. I was suspicious. Now I know the only way to positively ID a 2416 or 2417H driver is to fit test a 2417 or an unusable 2425 diaphragm , or measure the phase plug height if you have the means to accurately do so.

Lastly, I recently purchased a NOS JBL 2415H diaphragm, and the major differences I can spot are that the voice coil winding appears to be of copper instead of aluminum, and the DC resistance is much different-4.4 ohms on the 2415 dia and 2.9-3.1 ohms on my 2416 dias.

All of the JBL diaphragm variants I have (2415H, 2416H, and 2416H-1) do have the pin hole vent in the cap. The Radian cover and sealing gasket sold to use with their 1225 dia on 2415/16 drivers does not have a vent hole. However, their surround is perforated, which allows for pressure equalization. The sealed back cap also prevents the woofer from modulating the diaphragm at high level low frequencies.

Read through the sister thread I linked above for more details.

Perhaps a moderator should combine these threads?

[Earl K]

Good info there Rudy , about the 2417 being a different beast all-together . I didn't know that . Thanks !

I had also wondered whether or not my 2425 diaphragms would properly fit the (2) 2415 magnetic assemblies that I have here / & now I know that they should .

[Rudy Kleimann]

Good info there Rudy , about the 2417 being a different beast all-together . I didn't know that . Thanks !I had also wondered whether or not my 2425 diaphragms would properly fit the (2) 2415 magnetic assemblies that I have here / & now I know that they should .

Yeah, just order backcap kits from Radian and run the JBL 2425 or Radian 1225 diaphragm in it. I'll be doing that myself shortly.

I've no personal experience with th 2415H "salt shaker phase plug" driver, but I think it is safe to say that the phase plug profile and compatibility is there, considering the JBL 2415 replacement diaphragm supersedes to a 2416H-1 diaphragm. For that matter, I think it is possible that the filter network may not care either, since the impedance curve may not be much different between the 2415 copper coil and the 2416 aluminum coil. It would be interesting to see/compare impedance plots of the two diaphragms and the networks from a very early 4425 and a late-model 4425.

The 2418, used in MR9xx, several EON's, and maybe a couple others, is yet another beast with an entirely different diaphragm and a separate back cap.The diaphragm is so cheesy-looking and flimsy to the touch that I never took it any more seriously than I do a 2412H... I'm not even sure it is titanium, so I never have fooled around with one. My personal feeling about the 2418H is that it is an example of upper management profit motives trumping product design and manufacturing quality.