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Thread: High SPL Design Ideas

  1. #16
    Senior Member Lee in Montreal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by reVintage View Post
    Hi again Lee,

    Thanks! I know the original Imperial very well and have the plans, never heard of the Jensen/Waldorf though. Same, same?
    The Waldorf, designed by Richard Long, was contemporary to the 4520, but a very different beast and intended for the dancefloor, while the Jensen Imperial was designed for the lounge. The Waldorf was inspired by the Jensen and is supposed to have a rounder bass than the 4520, most likely because of the bigger rear chamber. The simpler horn path also leads to less reflections and nulls, which will probably affect efficiency and linearity. The 4520 was 4ft tall while the Waldorf had an extra foot (30cm). And for the sake of improving the lower spectrum, nothing can keep a builder from making it 6ft tall.

    The 4520 design can easily be modified to reach 27Hz in horn length, but not in horn mouth.

    But getting back to the original subject of this thead, I suggest the OP to look at horns if high SPL is the goal. It will require to build many, many 4645 to get the impact of a scoop.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lee in Montreal View Post
    Correct. And a modular design. The horn itself is an add-on. So moving them around is not that hard ;-)

    Attachment 53037
    Attachment 53038
    Attachment 53039

    Bertha and Waldorf.
    Attachment 53040

    If making a big Bertha is not a possiblity, then I would built two Waldorfs with four 2242

    Also Theriam, if you don't already have purchased your 2242, may I suggest you purchase good used 2240s instead as they go lower by at least 5Hz and are dirt cheap. You can buy them for around $250 a pair on original JBL cones. Expect $500 for four drivers, which is less tha one single 2242... Build scoops with them and feel the thump. In each enclosure, one drivers can do 25Hz to 120Hz while the other does 25Hz to 50Hz. For really high SPL, then build four Waldorf/4520 (with eight 2240).
    I like where we are going! I've always wanted to build a bass horn! Do we have access to good plans for the Bertha? Does anyone on the forum happen to have test data for both designs, Waldorf and Bertha, with JBL drivers?

  3. #18
    Senior Member Lee in Montreal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by theriam View Post
    I like where we are going! I've always wanted to build a bass horn! Do we have access to good plans for the Bertha? Does anyone on the forum happen to have test data for both designs, Waldorf and Bertha, with JBL drivers?
    Bertha and Waldorf would be the ultimate party mix. They were designed 35 years ago and many clubs still use the same design. and you won't need 1000 watts amp.

    Here's the plan for the EAW, similar to the Bertha. You must add the Levan horn extension to reach low. I can't imagine the sound if placed in corners of the room.

    And some good read.
    http://forum.speakerplans.com/paradi...115_page1.html

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  4. #19
    Member reVintage's Avatar
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    So, now only plans for the Waldorfs are missing....
    Brgds
    Lars

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lee in Montreal View Post
    Bertha and Waldorf would be the ultimate party mix. They were designed 35 years ago and many clubs still use the same design. and you won't need 1000 watts amp.

    Here's the plan for the EAW, similar to the Bertha. You must add the Levan horn extension to reach low. I can't imagine the sound if placed in corners of the room.

    And some good read.
    http://forum.speakerplans.com/paradi...115_page1.html

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    Thanks! Great background info. How would you compare the low end performance of the JBL ASH 6118 design to the Bertha with extensions?

    My only hesitation with some of the bass horns systems I've heard (neither of these designs) is they seem to be less than linear ("boomy" or "peaky") in response making them fatiguing to listen to. Their efficiency and output are absolutely without compare but my ears are fairly critical and I don't want to ignore my Audiophile tendencies.

  6. #21
    Senior Member Lee in Montreal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by reVintage View Post
    So, now only plans for the Waldorfs are missing....
    Modified for 18" 2240 drivers, right?

    Are you handy when it comes to make sims? if so, we could explore rear chamber size and throat area...

  7. #22
    Senior Member Lee in Montreal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by theriam View Post
    Thanks! Great background info. How would you compare the low end performance of the JBL ASH 6118 design to the Bertha with extensions?
    Hmm... Maybe you could build both styles and report?

    The advantage of the Bertha is the much bigger mouth, which is needed for low frequencies. But both work according to the same principle.

  8. #23
    Senior Member 1audiohack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by theriam View Post
    Thanks! Great background info. My only hesitation with some of the bass horns systems I've heard (neither of these designs) is they seem to be less than linear ("boomy" or "peaky") in response making them fatiguing to listen to. Their efficiency and output are absolutely without compare but my ears are fairly critical and I don't want to ignore my Audiophile tendencies.
    That's what EQ is for. You will need an active crossover with delay anyway.

    If you build bass horns, and I would, the money saved buying less drivers will be spent on wood and time. Just take it from one with experience, they cannot be built too rigid. If you want even a proven design to sound good loud, they have to be very stiff everywhere, really really solid.

    Where in the barn is the sound system going to be placed? Will you post a picture of the inside of your barn? If you hang the mid/high pack on the long wall consider the JBL 2360 or the 2365 horns if you are hanging on the short wall. You can angle them down pointed on axis at the back of the barn and still fill but not kill the people up close, with some EQ they sound great and if you look around you can often get them for little more than shipping

    Dang this project just sounds like fun!
    If we knew what the hell we were doing, we wouldn't call it research would we.

  9. #24
    Dis Member mikebake's Avatar
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    Here ya go. Bet it works pretty well. Name:  Marquis system.jpg
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  10. #25
    Senior Member Lee in Montreal's Avatar
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    Rog Mogale has developped 25Hz scoop. if the barn has 25ft ceilings, then those tall cabinets are not a problem...

    Actually even some Waldorf or 4520 can do 25Hz if they are 8ft tall.

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  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1audiohack View Post
    That's what EQ is for. You will need an active crossover with delay anyway.

    If you build bass horns, and I would, the money saved buying less drivers will be spent on wood and time. Just take it from one with experience, they cannot be built too rigid. If you want even a proven design to sound good loud, they have to be very stiff everywhere, really really solid.

    Where in the barn is the sound system going to be placed? Will you post a picture of the inside of your barn? If you hang the mid/high pack on the long wall consider the JBL 2360 or the 2365 horns if you are hanging on the short wall. You can angle them down pointed on axis at the back of the barn and still fill but not kill the people up close, with some EQ they sound great and if you look around you can often get them for little more than shipping

    Dang this project just sounds like fun!
    It will be fun! It's been a while since I've taken on a speaker project and it will be great to share the results with our friends!

    Attached are a couple of pictures of the open barn space. The speakers will be installed on the short side with the mid/high packs on wall in the same general area as the old speakers in the pictures. The subs can sit on the floor to the left and under the staircase.
    Attached Images Attached Images    

  12. #27
    Senior Member Lee in Montreal's Avatar
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    Wow, great space. Looking at how big it is, I would even suggest eight 4520s, in quatuors.

    Here's one side of the barn.

    4520
    4560
    2350
    2360

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  13. #28
    Senior Member 1audiohack's Avatar
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    That looks like a party space all right! It will take some real subs to fill it. What speakers are hanging in the pictures? Do they come close to playing loud enough? I'm just trying to get an idea of how loud is loud.

    By the way Lee, that looks like a damn good start!

    All the best,
    Barry.
    If we knew what the hell we were doing, we wouldn't call it research would we.

  14. #29
    Member reVintage's Avatar
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    Are you handy when it comes to make sims? if so, we could explore rear chamber size and throat area...
    I have an acceptable knowledge in using HR and can also interpret the results. Input needed is:

    Driver
    At
    Am
    L
    T if Hypex
    Backchamber volume
    Placement
    Brgds
    Lars

  15. #30
    Dis Member mikebake's Avatar
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    I would resist the temptation towards the bigger/more solution for this space. It appears it will be a fairly highly reverberant space, and over-scaling the system will just add problems. I'm not so concerned about the subs; a couple of 2242's would be fine in there and give you all you'd need if set up/powered right. One mid, one horn, one tweet per side should be plenty. Large format horns which can can work in large venues may pose problems in there. It might be illuminating for you to hear a modest modern system in there done right, as a reference for what is possible. The nice thing about permanent installations is you can use the old school/heavy/large stuff and not really care, if it's out of the way.

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