+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 4 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 46

Thread: Digital or analog crossover ?

  1. #1
    Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Italy
    Posts
    42

    Digital or analog crossover ?

    I apologize if the issue has been already discussed here
    I have become very very interested in active crossovers after reading an interesting article comparing active and passive ones
    The same article states the superiority of digital crossovers on analogue ones
    Could you give me your point of view or, eventually, redirect me to any old 3Ds on this issue ?
    Thank you very much indeed.
    Regards,

    Gino

  2. #2
    Administrator Mr. Widget's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    San Francisco
    Posts
    8,511
    I am not sure there is a specific discussion on just this topic, but indirectly there have been numerous discussions about various digital and analog crossovers.

    I have used numerous inexpensive analog crossovers as well as the DEQX digital and a handful of expensive analog crossovers. In general digital offers much more control and is more flexible, but I don't think any commercially available digital electronic crossovers are as sonically invisible as the best analog units are... so far. They have gotten better and better, but right now in 2011, I would still go with analog. The possible exception would be if I used a digital crossover with digital outputs feeding an appropriate number of sonically superior DACs... Bryston BDA-1, Berkeley Audio Design Alpha DAC, or something along these lines... but at that point you are spending some "real money".


    Widget

  3. #3
    Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Italy
    Posts
    42
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Widget View Post
    I am not sure there is a specific discussion on just this topic, but indirectly there have been numerous discussions about various digital and analog crossovers.
    I have used numerous inexpensive analog crossovers as well as the DEQX digital and a handful of expensive analog crossovers. In general digital offers much more control and is more flexible, but I don't think any commercially available digital electronic crossovers are as sonically invisible as the best analog units are... so far. They have gotten better and better, but right now in 2011, I would still go with analog.
    The possible exception would be if I used a digital crossover with digital outputs feeding an appropriate number of sonically superior DACs... Bryston BDA-1, Berkeley Audio Design Alpha DAC, or something along these lines... but at that point you are spending some "real money".
    Widget
    Thank you very much indeed for your valuable and kind reply
    I would like to stay on the cheap side. I will follow discussion on analogue units then.
    By the way the feature that intrigues me about digital X-over is the possibility to have very steep slopes
    But I do not understand what makes a 48dB/octave filter so much better than a 24dB/octave ( the maximum for most of analogue units).
    Regards,
    gino

  4. #4
    Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Italy
    Posts
    42
    [QUOTE=Mr. Widget;320377] ... sonically invisible... Widget

    I swear ... the last one
    This "sonically invisible" is making me wondering
    Do you rely on listening tests or measurements to assess this property ?
    I feel this is a topic issue in general.
    Thank you very much indeed.
    Regards,
    gino

  5. #5
    Administrator Mr. Widget's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    San Francisco
    Posts
    8,511
    You can look at a laundry list of beautiful measurements and still find a piece of electronics sounds hard nasally and compressed. You have to listen. Ideally with a highly revealing system and in a good room.


    Widget

  6. #6
    Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Italy
    Posts
    42
    [QUOTE=Mr. Widget;321256]
    You can look at a laundry list of beautiful measurements and still find a piece of electronics sounds hard nasally and compressed.
    You have to listen.
    Ideally with a highly revealing system and in a good room.
    Widget

    Thank you sincerely Mr Widget ! nice and clear
    I asked because I read somewhere here in the forum of people playing with square waves to asses a component's transparency.
    But I definitely understand the point
    I am a little sad but I have to accept the reality
    Kind regards,
    gino



  7. #7
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    SoCal, USA
    Posts
    8,895
    There are often two (or more) paths to the same destination. Some will say "This is the better path because it's short, straight, and gets you there the quickest." Others will say, "This is the better path because it follows a meandering stream, has beautiful flowers, features signing birds, and has an aura of arcadian beauty and pastoral romanticism about it." Someone else will say, "This is the better path because it goes high among the peaks, with grand vistas and shocking drops, and it enervates the soul and energizes the body."

    Mr. Widget and I like different paths, but we at least agree on the methodology: listen.
    In.

  8. #8
    Administrator Mr. Widget's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    San Francisco
    Posts
    8,511
    Quote Originally Posted by Titanium Dome View Post
    Mr. Widget and I like different paths, but we at least agree on the methodology: listen.
    I'd argue that we diverge less than we agree. It's not like one of us prefers tiny "full range" Lowthers and the other a full range JBL system after all.

    I do prefer two-channel and you appreciate surround sound and are more tolerant of digital processing, but otherwise I think we are frequently in agreement.


    Widget

  9. #9
    Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Italy
    Posts
    42
    Hi Gentlemen !
    I have just read an interview to John Dunlavy
    He is a very techy speakers designer
    And when I think I have found a designer who completely relies on measurements
    ... he introduces this "final speakers voicing by ear"
    I tend to be techy ... may be because I trust very little my own ears
    Let's say that what confuses me mostly is the idea of a component that measures very well and performs poorly in a listening test
    But really does a component like this exist ?
    I doubt
    Have nice listenings !
    Kind regards,
    gino

  10. #10
    Administrator Robh3606's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Destiny
    Posts
    7,515
    You have to try this stuff and make up your own mind. You get peoples opinions on the net and frankly all of them, including mine, are on shacky ground as there is no frame of reference. If you have actualy sat down with someone and listened to a system together then at least the two of you know what you are talking about.

    As with anything it's all about implimentation and set-up. You have people on both sides of the fence and you have to wonder how well the disatisfied people did their homework of if they even bothered to. The nets a great place for information but putting weight into another persons listening impressions is very much a grey area.

    Rob
    "I could be arguing in my spare time"

  11. #11
    Administrator Mr. Widget's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    San Francisco
    Posts
    8,511
    Quote Originally Posted by Robh3606 View Post
    You have to try this stuff and make up your own mind. You get peoples opinions on the net and frankly all of them, including mine, are on shacky ground...


    Of course I am always right, but then if one were to slog through my thousands of posts on this forum, one would discover 180° shifts in some areas as I have gained experience and situations have changed.

    Back to the question about measurements though; every successful audio designer I have met and spoken with over the years uses careful lab measurements and then ultimately his ears. Trust your ears, they are the final arbiter... and if you find you can't hear a difference between a more costly and less costly item, or a difference between a more convenient or less convenient item, why not choose the less costly or more convenient item?


    Widget

  12. #12
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    SoCal, USA
    Posts
    8,895
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Widget View Post



    if you find you can't hear a difference between a more costly and less costly item, or a difference between a more convenient or less convenient item, why not choose the less costly or more convenient item?


    Widget
    Because the more costly item has better build quality and durability? Because the less convenient item has greater future utility? Because your significant other likes black rather than brown? Because one fits and the other doesn't? Because LCD displays and LEDs that flash are cooler than stupid sliding levers and dumb rotary knobs that don't even have fake chrome on them?

    Of course, I agree with your reasoning and have occasionally followed your advice, but your statement was begging the question, so I donated some queries out of consideration for the begging.

    Generally, I like to get a lot of stuff and ignorantly mess around with it to see what happens. Everyone here already had that opinion, so I saved us all some time.
    In.

  13. #13
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    1,120
    Quote Originally Posted by Titanium Dome View Post
    Because the more costly item has better build quality and durability?
    So long as it don't have no billet aluminum faceplate

  14. #14
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    SoCal, USA
    Posts
    8,895
    Quote Originally Posted by JeffW View Post
    So long as it don't have no billet aluminum faceplate
    Yes, we don't need no stinking billet faceplate!
    In.

  15. #15
    Administrator Mr. Widget's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    San Francisco
    Posts
    8,511
    Quote Originally Posted by Titanium Dome View Post
    Because the more costly item has better build quality and durability? Because the less convenient item has greater future utility? Because your significant other likes black rather than brown? Because one fits and the other doesn't? Because LCD displays and LEDs that flash are cooler than stupid sliding levers and dumb rotary knobs that don't even have fake chrome on
    I didn't go there because I thought it obvious...


    Widget

+ Reply to Thread

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 26
    Last Post: 02-24-2013, 09:10 AM
  2. Digital to analog audio converter for HDTV
    By Mannermusic in forum Miscellaneous Gear
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 02-05-2011, 06:19 PM
  3. EWA UX8800 DSP digital crossover
    By JBL 4645 in forum Electronic Crossovers
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 11-18-2010, 04:02 PM
  4. Replies: 7
    Last Post: 05-07-2007, 03:48 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts