pics of the 2226 woofers
pics of the 2226 woofers
well scrap that, :-) found a good supply
Last edited by Dualbios; 12-10-2011 at 09:39 PM. Reason: change of plans
Hey guys just wondering what new aged subwoofer I should look at using for the system will be for movies and music
Also being an Aussie, I feel for you in trying to secure some of the parts. However, as designed the DC system is overkill for any sort of domestic situation and more suited to a small commercial theatre. Having had many of the components in use in systems both at home and in my (now defunct) PA, I wouldn't build it for home. It's also an old design and there have been some developments worth incorporating.
As designed it would play very loud and clean (DD warns of this), but it won't really go deep, not at least deep as modern HT enthusiasts would interpret it. As you are not exactly cloning it and do not need to use a passive xover designed for specific drivers and configurations, use it as inspiration and go from there.
As you have 2226's, I'll start from there. I used these in my PA ported to 40Hz and they were excellent, even when simply plonked into the living room. If you are using subs for HT/music, then they won't need to be used below 60-80Hz where a dedicated LF driver will serve better and give more output because of potentially more volume displacement. The 2226's could easily be run sealed in 80L or so and EQ'd to get flat to 60-80Hz, and rolled off steeply by the DCX.
Above the 2226, the 2123 is an excellent choice. I ran these in my PA for years, and tried them in a couple of home systems. I bought 4 more new to originally use in a Bouska-esque design before getting the current AE drivers. I built some active 3 ways out of scrap MDF and used them for some time before moving. They were 2225/2123/DE250/JBL Ewave WG so I have some experience with similar designs. The almost identical PA used 2226/2123/Beyma CP380M on Yamaha horns.
I have no experience of the 2012, but if you can get 2123 in VGC, I'm not sure you'll find all that much difference between them in domestic use.
As pointed out in the DD article, the directivity match between the horns and 10 below helps eliminate some of the 'horn sound'. Domestically, I see no need for a 2" driver to cover from 1200hz up. The DE250 will do that fine on the correct WG, is a terrific driver and $US123 + postage new from PSS, whom I recommend highly.
http://www.prosoundservice.com/m9/BC...ver-8-ohm.html
I have used the 2446/5 in previous fully horn loaded systems, and didn't like them all that much with the original Ti diaphragms. The Al radians seemed less splashy sounding, but my measurement system wasn't as good back then to define why. I suspect break up from 8k or so up. I've also had the 2405 and never understood why they were popular. Similarly the 2380/2382 flares, old fashioned slotted diffractive horns. They're OK until you hear a good radial or WG.
Mine are still in storage after I went to the BMS 4590 coaxial and built some Yuichi Arai A290 flares. The 2446 sounded better on these, but not as good as the BMS.
For a flare, JBL sell a number of PT waveguides (WG) as spares. I'm currently using the small 12x6" version the late great Zilch got for me, but will be replacing them in the NY with the cast version of these in a similar design to the 3 way above (4 x surrounds). they'll allow a lower xover than the 1700Hz the protos use, down to 1200 or so (I hope).
http://www.diysoundgroup.com/wavegui...os/seos12.html - $US49 for the cast version/ $US125 for the fibreglass.
Actual pic
from here and prices here
So with the above, you can play loud and very clean from 80-18k, with available and affordable parts and build them in quite compact enclosures - much, much smaller than the original DC design.
For subs that will go low and loud, you have very few options in Australia. The recently released Mach 5 Pi18 looks like a great driver and I'll be buying 2 for the system when the container arrives in Brisvegas in March or so. Depending upon the size and design of the box, you can go very loud and deep. Mine will be 400L and 13Hz tune.
Crossover: though a fan of the DCX (I have 3, modified) for a 4 way system, or a 3 way and simply use the AVR for xover and processing they are excellent. Also worthy of mention is the MiniDSP 2x4 balanced ($125ea) and buy 3 with the 4 way plug in and run one each for L/C/R.
http://www.minidsp.com/products/mini...2-x-in-4-x-out
For amps I use Yamaha P series pro units, and have some Jands as spares. The Behringer EP series would do great for the subs and 2226 and the A500 for the 10" and 1". Fan mods for the EP are plentiful on the web and easy to do. Australian made Quest amps are brilliant, unbreakable and can usually be had on ebay new or used for good money. They'll also need fan mods.
Summary:
LF: Pi18 sealed or ported, enclosures to suit and EQ'd <80Hz
Separate enclosures to rest of system to allow placement flexibility.
MB: JBL2226 sealed and EQ'd in 80L or so net. 80-300Hz
MR: JBL2123 sealed in 10L+ 300-1200hz
HF: B&C DE250 on SEOS12 1200Hz up
Xover: 3 MiniDSP balanced 2x4
Amps: what you can get to suit.
Just a note on my pursuit of the Drew Daniels system, I stopped cold when I got to the 2382's, tried the 2380's, then the 2385's and one 2386, and soon decided these are not the horns for my house.
I'm back to the GTI 1800's, 2227's, 2450Be's on the Woody's and 2405's. A DBX4800 drives the K2's, a K1 and a D45 and I think I'm going to keep it this way a while though I am missing the crack of the 2123's, the integration of the 2227 to the 290 horn is smooth and easy. Sure could use a pair of 1500Al's!
If we knew what the hell we were doing, we wouldn't call it research would we.
Interestingly I was cruising through the Lansing Heritage site today... hadn't checked it out in a few years... amazing how much info there is in there to forget.Originally Posted by 1audiohack
In any event I ended up checking out the infamous Drew Daniels system once again... those PA horns definitely drop me cold. I wouldn't want them in my living room... of course realize he designed that system back in the 1990s. JBL has certainly come a long way since then!
Widget
When I did my scaled back version I used the 2123 with a 2426 on a 2344 horn instead. I though that since the crossover point was up over 1K I really didn't need a 2" driver to cover that range. I also liked the 2344 quite a bit more than the other horns at the time.Just a note on my pursuit of the Drew Daniels system, I stopped cold when I got to the 2382's, tried the 2380's, then the 2385's and one 2386, and soon decided these are not the horns for my house.
Rob
"I could be arguing in my spare time"
So if I was to go a p audio ph-316 and an adapter and 2426 would that be better suited
I think it partially depends on how loud you might be inclined to listen. I have and like the 2426/2344 combo and have two systems that employ them but, the one inch drivers don't play loud enough clean enough for me on a "main" system. It's the drivers as I have tried 2427's on my 2" throat horns with similar results.
In working through the 2382's I just got curious and also bought and tried the 2380's, 2385's and finally 2386's and have to say that there are better sounding horns for home. I have a pair of A290's (right Woody?) that sound great from a whisper to dangerously loud. Yup, it's big drivers for me.
If we knew what the hell we were doing, we wouldn't call it research would we.
Good info I will have to try both mocked up in cheap boxes to test then
yeah the one inch just doesn't get the SPL no matter how you do the filtering...it's a distortion thing.
If you want a big horn, and the smoothness, look at a pair of 2352's with the 1.5" 2451 or 2447 drivers on them. You can run them all day and night without fatigue, great performance all the way down to 500 and not that deep and have flat fronts.
A guy on ebay had a dozen recently for 125 each or best offer. I have a pair of painted 2447's from a church with no need but shipping to oz will kill you...
sub
whats everyones thoughts on these? http://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com...ier-3-channel/
thanks for all the help so far guys. subwoof u have a pm aswell
On paper that one looks better:
http://www.minidsp.com/onlinestore/d...-dsp3?sef=hcfp
- same price
- from the minidsp team
- network capabilities (sound+control)
- more power (and more logical power distribution between channel fro most applications)
thank you very much mate, i didnt know minidsp made them only knew about the processing kits they did.if i want to make matching rears but only 2 way what would u guys run?
how will these sound would i be better off with power amps or will plate amps like this do fine
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