Amplifier for L65s? (Bryston/B&K/Perreaux)

[misterharrison]

Rather than continue over in the other thread about upgrading from L65s, I thought I would start a new thread about amplification.

Basically, I've been running my L65As for a while with a Bryston 2B-SST and over time I've become increasingly dissatisfied with the sound. The 077s were sounding over-bright inducing definite listener fatigue and the bass was only sounding good at higher volumes. Endless tweaking of the presence/brilliance controls as well as speaker placement failed to solve the problem. Foolishly I assumed it couldn't possibly be the Bryston's fault and so started that thread about changing the speakers.

Then, on a whim, I decided to try my old B&K ST-140 which had been relegated to the cupboard as soon as the Bryston arrived. It's a 110V unit that I brought back with me from abroad so it has to be used with a 110-220V transformer, and even then it runs with a bit of transformer hum. However putting it back into the system has been a revelation. The over-bright highs have gone and the L65s are sounding warm and full at low volumes. I'm actually listening to music late at night again, something I've really been missing. This may be because it's a Mosfet amp that runs in class A for the first few watts (I think). On the other hand, I've lost a bit of detail, it runs very hot which might be a problem here in Lisbon as the summer heats up, and there's something dissatisfying about having to run it with an external voltage transformer (hum notwithstanding).

So now I'm pretty sure I'm going to move the Bryston on, the proceeds from which I can put into a new amp that at least works at the right voltage! And while I am enjoying the B&K at the moment, I'm thinking I should be able to find something with the same sound signature but more resolution. (The B&K design is 20 years old now and only costs about $300 on the used market these days.)

This is where the Perreaux comes in. In the other thread, Rolf recommended Perreaux amps - something about Mosfets with JBL working well. Having never heard of them, a quick look on the internet brought up a Perreaux 200P for sale right here in Lisbon. Was this fate? I have contacted the seller and I am awaiting a response.

In the meantime, I would like to ask here if anyone has any experience of this particular amp? In particular I am interested in Regis' opinion, as he seems to have used a Perreaux 200P with L300s. I'm guessing I would get similar results with L65s, just on a smaller scale?

I am also interested in any other suggestions for amps that will provide what I'm looking for, i.e.
1. Tame the brightness of the 077 tweeter.
2. Keep a grip on the 12" bass driver.
3. Sound good at low volumes.
4. Not run too hot due to high summer temps here in Lisbon.

Thanks!

[misterharrison]

Don't worry, no flames from me, just a refusal to change my preamp.

And a reminder that changing the amp from Bryston to B&K made a very significant difference in my system.

Oh, and the Perreaux I've found locally is the right voltage, I believe.

[timc]

I tried a Crown K2 with my L65's. That didn't sound bad.

[Mannermusic]

I tried a Crown K2 with my L65's. That didn't sound bad.

Yes, and going further back, we always considered one of the Crown "D series" (150 or 300) the baseline for those old JBL systems (along with a Marantz 7C pre). Very musical, bullet proof. Carved out of a block of aluminum.

[misterharrison]

Thanks for the suggestions.

Does anyone have any recent Perreaux experience? It seems they transformed themselves from a Pro outfit in the 80s into a home-audio company in the 00s. I wonder if they maintained some kind of house sound?

[Regis]

Thanks for the suggestions.

Does anyone have any recent Perreaux experience? It seems they transformed themselves from a Pro outfit in the 80s into a home-audio company in the 00s. I wonder if they maintained some kind of house sound?

If you're looking at a Perreaux 200p, get it! It is a very quiet, well built powerhouse, with excellent damping characteristics. I've long sold the L300's to a forum member and am running a pair of vintage 4315's. The Perreaux has no problem driving these to uncomfortable levels. I highly recommend taking advantage of using the XLR connections throughout your system. This may take some time, understandably, but the noise reduction is well worth it. I am using a BV Audio preamp (XLR) with a Sony CDP-12 Pro CD player, though any pro CD player of recent make, will do, including Teac's TASCAM line or Marantz's Pro line.

[misterharrison]

Thanks for your input, Regis (and the PM).

This whole damping issue is starting to confuse me. I always assumed that for larger bass drivers (12" +) you needed a good high damping factor to control overshoot etc.

However recently in a couple of places I've spotted comments suggesting that if the sensitivity is high enough, too high a damping factor can make the bass a bit too dry and sterile. This certainly seems to have been my experience comparing the Bryston and B&K amps in my system (I assume the Bryston has a much higher damping factor than the B&K). Maybe I just prefer the warm sound of overblown and distorted bass!

Here's an example of the kind of comment I've been noticing (from here):

My own experience, however, is that the high damping factor of many solid state amps is not the best match for high-sensitivity, big-cone woofers. Used a 4B-SST for a while to drive Altecs and Tannoys (similar sensitivity and same cone size as the L300s) and found the bass somewhat dry and lifeless.

I'd go with a lower power Class A amp or a quality mosfet amp with lower damping factor.

Does anyone here actually prefer a low damping factor with certain speakers?

[SEAWOLF97]

Does anyone here actually prefer a low damping factor with certain speakers?

my amp is factory quoted as:

Damping Factor > 500:1 (ref. 8 ohms) below 500 Hz

and it does a GREAT job on the LE14-1's (250ti's & Walsh F's (that are 4/3 ohm)) , I bought it on advise of a very respected forum member and have never regretted the decision.

[Allanvh5150]

Thanks for the suggestions.

Does anyone have any recent Perreaux experience? It seems they transformed themselves from a Pro outfit in the 80s into a home-audio company in the 00s. I wonder if they maintained some kind of house sound?

They did make a lot of pro gear in the 80's but a lot of their market share was home audio as well. Strangely enough the home audio amps, PMF series, were indentical to the pro stuff. The circuit was bare bone, minimalist aproach stuff and the older amps will still stand up to be counted with anything on the market today.

Allan.

[Rolf]

Well, I agree / disagree with you at the following points. In the 80's I had the PMF 2150B Power Amp and the SM2 Pre Amp. (Still got it) Today I have SM6MK2 Pre Amp and two 350 Power Amps. Two because I bi-amp my 4343B's. One pr channel. I have also earlier used just one 350 with the original network, and there is no doubt in my mind that the SM6 and the 350 is much better than the SM2 and the 2150B. I agree that the "older" Perreaux stuff goes far beyond many new Pre and Power Amps, but Perreaux has improved over time.

Of course the newer stuff is far more expensive than the older ones. but that is the price to pay if one want to keep up. The choice is up to the individual.

I must add that after I got new CC Network in the 4343B's the sound got even better.

My opinion.

They did make a lot of pro gear in the 80's but a lot of their market share was home audio as well. Strangely enough the home audio amps, PMF series, were indentical to the pro stuff. The circuit was bare bone, minimalist aproach stuff and the older amps will still stand up to be counted with anything on the market today.

Allan.

[misterharrison]

Right, I've been listening all afternoon to this Perreaux 200P that the seller was kind enough to bring over so I could hear it in my system and in my room. The seller was very interested in my L65s - he didn't have any experience of vintage JBLs and was very impressed. He runs B&W 804s at home and now uses a Rotel amp with them as he says he likes the warmer sound.

Anyway, the Perreaux is a monster - it's almost twice as deep as my other amps and built like a tank! From the moment we started playing music through it, it was apparent that it was a quality piece of equipment. It gripped the L65's bass drivers and made it clear from the start who was boss. As it warmed up, the top end softened up slightly and the midrange filled out. After listening to a range of music through it, I got a good idea of its "sound", which I would describe as follows:

• It's warm without being woolly or untruthful - this means it plays everything well. The B&K I've been using has a lovely warm sound, but it's so far from neutral that some types of music just sound too unnatural. Others sound wonderful, though. Also the B&K has the edge when played at low volumes, I think.
• It's detailed without being bright or etched. The Bryston had stunning detail but sent laser beams of shrill sound out the 077 tweeters that made you wince at times.
• And it sounds effortless however loud you push it. I can just imagine the fun you could have at a party...

So I bought it.


PS If I don't end up liking it, it's all your fault, Rolf.

[Rolf]

Sorry. If you after a while don't like it, I buy it from you.

It is really a beautiful amp.

PS If I don't end up liking it, it's all your fault, Rolf.

[misterharrison]

Sorry. If you after a while don't like it, I buy it from you.

Don't worry, I'm sure there won't be any need for that - I spent hours listening to it yesterday when I should have been working!

[Regis]

Don't worry, I'm sure there won't be any need for that - I spent hours listening to it yesterday when I should have been working!

I'm glad you got the amp! It sounds like it met your expectations and then some! I haven't got tired of my Perreaux yet, nor seen the necessity to upgrade either. It'll have to break some day, far in the future, before I consider replacing it!

[misterharrison]

Oh, the bass!