250ti Initial Observations (long)

[kmanusa]

After a couple of weeks of experience with these, I thought I would offer up my observations with them. A little background about me: I am a long-time audiophile going back to the early 1970s. During these past 40 years or so, I have experimented with all kinds of speakers, amplification and source devices.

These are my first JBLs—I considered L100s back in the day but thought them too colored for my musical tastes at the time. I do remember thinking that they really sounded quite good with many rock recordings.

I bought the 250tis from a fellow who says he was the second owner. The woofers had been refoamed by the original owner. I have yet to pull the woofers to take a look at a loose speaker binding post but I’ll get to that soon. I have tried to clean some oxidation from the buss bars and have done a quick cleaning of the cabinets.

My overall impression is that these speakers are quite low in coloration. They are relatively easy to place in the room for good sound compared with the full range dipoles and hybrid speakers I have had. I find the bass full and very slightly “woolly” with good extension; I seem to be getting some “room gain” in the 30 Hz region that raises the response down there.

The mids are basically neutral in perspective with little coloration. I find the highs quite good, very extended and smooth. This titanium tweeter is as good as any I have heard including the Magnepan ribbon.

My room is roughly 13 by 22 by 9 feet and I have them placed about 4 ½ feet from the wall behind them; the vertical driver axis is about 3 feet from the side walls. The stereo spread and driver blend is good listening about 12 feet away. I’m using a Sunfire 300 amp and a Bryston BP25mc preamp.

I did not know what to expect from the 250tis having not heard them in many years. From what I have heard so far, I think these are perhaps the best compromise of any speaker I have ever had—they seem to do well over a wider range of music than the Magnepans, Martin Logans, IMFs, Infinitys, B&Ws, etc., that I have owned. And, much more dynamic and clean at high levels than virtually all of them.

One thing I need to pursue further is the refoam job—I wonder if it was done properly and with the right parts.

Initial setup pictures can be found here: http://www.audioheritage.org/vbullet...e-Binding-Post

[SEAWOLF97]

nice writeup & welcome to the club. I like mine too.

you can alter their sound with the buss bars , tho not greatly ,, you owe it to yourself (IMHO) to try all the different combos , at least once. I did that, but settled on the default settings.

rarely play very loud, but when I did , it was astounding that they will just get louder & louder and not complain or distort.

mine did not appear dirty when purchased, but I got a beeswax with citrus cleaner that did wonders. its applied with very fine steel wool (rubbed in with fortissimo) , the cleaner pulled lots of gunk out of the grain (and smelled good)....then you let it sit and buff out...they fairly glow now....the product I used is Australian , but there are USA products that do the same...many threads on the forum about wood care.

The 250Ti seems to like lots of power ...I have run them on sources of 80,125,200 & 375 wpc ...they sounded good on all amps...but were significantly better on the 200+ amps.

enjoy them and keep us updated on your progress...

(LITTLE LATER) most owners are paranoid abt ever losing an 044Ti tweet , tho I haven't heard of many problems , SO ...we are generally on the lookout for donor speakers to source replacements ....the 18TI is the smallest/cheapest donors and usually cheaper than buying tweets from the web.

The 250TI is sort of a Jekyll & Hyde speaker, on many sources they are just "above normal" , but when you get the right source material , you'll say "damn, I didn't know they could do that !!" ...ie: they are not great ALL THE TIME...ON EVERYTHING..

ONE LAST: they can benefit from a subtle sub addition and minimal EQ can really help too.

One thing I need to pursue further is the refoam job—I wonder if it was done properly and with the right parts.

thats a rather specialized foam ..if it fits, is on the rear and sounds good..it prolly is..

[rdgrimes]

One thing I need to pursue further is the refoam job—I wonder if it was done properly and with the right parts.

If it ain't broke...... A couple closeup photos of the LE14s here will answer that question.

2nd the notion that these want POWER. 250WPC is the minimum IMO. You did good getting them away from the back wall, too bad you can't get more space on the sides too, but some EQ will cure the 30-60Hz spike they will have. Mine need about -9db in corners to level out that 40hz octave. And it does help the over-all balance of the sound. Otherwise they are nearest to a flat response of any JBL I've played with. Even my PT800/PS1400 stacks need more EQ than the 250s do.

[kmanusa]

If it ain't broke...... A couple closeup photos of the LE14s here will answer that question.

2nd the notion that these want POWER. 250WPC is the minimum IMO. You did good getting them away from the back wall, too bad you can't get more space on the sides too, but some EQ will cure the 30-60Hz spike they will have. Mine need about -9db in corners to level out that 40hz octave. And it does help the over-all balance of the sound. Otherwise they are nearest to a flat response of any JBL I've played with. Even my PT800/PS1400 stacks need more EQ than the 250s do.

Thanks, I'll post some photos of the woofers. BTW, the Sunfire is 300 watts per channel into 8 ohms, 600 into 4.

[kmanusa]

Here are pictures of the re-foamed woofers. I apologize for the low picture quality but these will have to do for now.

[1audiohack]

My room is roughly 13 by 22 by 9 feet.

Uuuh Huh! Didn't get those dimensions by accident I'll bet.

[Titanium Dome]

Those refoams look acceptable to me. What's your concern?

[kmanusa]

Those refoams look acceptable to me. What's your concern?

The guy I bought them from did not know much about what the original owner did to get them refoamed and I was a little concerned that maybe they were done "on the cheap". I've been reading past posts here to try and learn what acceptable refoams look like but there are so many postings on the subject, I do not yet have a good understanding. Your observations are greatly appreciated!

The bass is "full" in this room but overall better balanced than other box speakers I've had in here. Two that come to mind right off the bat-- Infinity RS-4.5 and B&W 801 Matrix S2 were either more colored or not as well extended as the 250tis.

[rdgrimes]

The guy I bought them from did not know much about what the original owner did to get them refoamed and I was a little concerned that maybe they were done "on the cheap".

As long as they don't rub, bottom out or otherwise make bad noises, you're good.

[kmanusa]

enjoy them and keep us updated on your progress...

Will do, thanks!

(LITTLE LATER) most owners are paranoid abt ever losing an 044Ti tweet , tho I haven't heard of many problems , SO ...we are generally on the lookout for donor speakers to source replacements ....the 18TI is the smallest/cheapest donors and usually cheaper than buying tweets from the web.

I'll be looking, thanks for the tip. I assume 'used' is the only source for 044Ti, JBL no longer stocks replacements?

The 250TI is sort of a Jekyll & Hyde speaker, on many sources they are just "above normal" , but when you get the right source material , you'll say "damn, I didn't know they could do that !!" ...ie: they are not great ALL THE TIME...ON EVERYTHING..

Understood, I think I am finding this to be the case as well. They seem to lock in on certain recordings. On other recordings they sound "above normal" but no more than that. They seem to be pretty darn good though when averaged across everything, at least so far!

ONE LAST: they can benefit from a subtle sub addition and minimal EQ can really help too.

I do have these Kinergetics SW-800 subs here that I used with Martin Logan CLS, 5 10" paper cone woofers per side. I could cross them over real low....


thats a rather specialized foam ..if it fits, is on the rear and sounds good..it prolly is..

Thanks!

[kmanusa]

Postscript--

Thanks to all who commented, it has been a rewarding experience to own and use these speakers. A few additional observations:

1) Substituted McIntosh MC7270 amplifier (270 wpc/8 ohms) for the Sunfire. Surprisingly, the bass became less "woolly" and the overall impression is one of slightly better balance, without any loss of "juice". My Sunfire amp probably needs to be sent to Rita's for refurb, I also noticed it is a bit noisy.

2) Tightened screws around drivers. Many of these were amazingly loose, especially around mid range drivers. Can't say I heard any sonic benefit but it made me feel good!

3) Tried Sunfire Classic Tube preamp. Nice, but I thought it's subtle signature (bass warmth, slight mid depression) was too much of a good thing when compared to the neutrality of the Bryston BP-25 preamp.

The neutral balance of the 250ti allows the subtle coloration of electronics to be heard!