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Thread: GTI series,car woofers. what Pro or home drivers are the smaller drivers based on?

  1. #1
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    GTI series,car woofers. what Pro or home drivers are the smaller drivers based on?

    I do strongly belive that the larger models are based on the current SVG models,
    But what about the smaller 2 models with 3" coil and 300Wrms powerhandling?

    GTI 1800 based on 2241
    GTI 1500 based on 2226
    GTI 1200 based on 2206
    GTI 1000 based on ????
    GTI 800 based on ????

    I find the 800 especially interesting, are there a JBL pro or home 8" driver with similar specs?

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  2. #2
    Senior Member 1audiohack's Avatar
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    Your right about the big three as far as basket and motor assemblies are concerned. The 1800 is more like a 2240 cone and coil wise and in my opinion out performs the 2241's for sub duties.

    I have never had nor seen the little ones and know nothing about them, the one you show the back of is all motor! Should you find out more please post.

    Best of luck,
    Barry.
    If we knew what the hell we were doing, we wouldn't call it research would we.

  3. #3
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    GTI 1800
    Mechanical parameters
    Fs = 30hz
    Qms = 6,77
    Vas = 362,46 Liters
    Cms = 0,158 mm/N
    Mms = 178,141 grams
    Rms = 4,96 kg/sec
    Xmax = 7,62 mm
    Sd = 1271 sq.cm
    Dia = 40,2 cm

    Electrical parameters
    Qes = 0,456
    Re = 2,5 ohms
    Le = 1 mh
    Z = 4 ohms
    BL = 13,6 N/A
    Pe = 600 Watts

    Kombination parameters
    Qts = 0,43
    n* = 2,07%
    Sens = 96,3 (1 Watt)

    GTI 1500
    Mechanical parameters
    Fs = 35hz
    Qms = 5,83
    Vas = 188,87 Liters
    Cms = 0,173 mm/N
    Mms = 119,7021 grams
    Rms = 4,515 kg/sec
    Xmax = 7,62 mm
    Sd = 877,4 sq.cm
    Dia = 33,5 cm

    Electrical parameters
    Qes = 0,36
    Re = 2,5 ohms
    Le = 1 mh
    Z = 4 ohms
    BL = 13,6 N/A
    Pe = 600 Watts

    Kombination parameters
    Qts = 0,34
    n* = 2,19%
    Sens = 95,4 (1 Watt)


    GTI 1200
    Mechanical parameters
    Fs = 37hz
    Qms = 5,83
    Vas = 56,63 Liters
    Cms = 0,133 mm/N
    Mms = 139,368 grams
    Rms = 5,557 kg/sec
    Xmax = 7,62 mm
    Sd = 548,1 sq.cm
    Dia = 26,4 cm

    Electrical parameters
    Qes = 0,510
    Re = 2,5 ohms
    Le = 1 mh
    Z = 4 ohms
    BL = 13,1 N/A
    Pe = 600 Watts

    Kombination parameters
    Qts = 0,47
    n* = 0,54%
    Sens = 89,52 (1 Watt)


    GTI 1000
    Mechanical parameters
    Fs = 62hz
    Qms = 5,44
    Vas = 18,97 Liters
    Cms = 0,112 mm/N
    Mms = 58,701 grams
    Rms = 4,294 kg/sec
    Xmax = 7,62 mm
    Sd = 345 sq.cm
    Dia = 21 cm

    Electrical parameters
    Qes = 0,72
    Re = 2,5 ohms
    Le = 0,5 mh
    Z = 4 ohms
    BL = 10,1 N/A
    Pe = 300 Watts

    Kombination parameters
    Qts = 0,64
    n* = 0,89%
    Sens = 91,69 (1 Watt)

    GTI 800
    Mechanical parameters
    Fs = 67hz
    Qms = 4,773
    Vas = 7,79 Liters
    Cms = 0,123 mm/N
    Mms = 45,803 grams
    Rms = 4,04 kg/sec
    Xmax = 7,62 mm
    Sd = 211 sq.cm
    Dia = 16,4 cm

    Electrical parameters
    Qes = 0,6
    Re = 2,5 ohms
    Le = 0,5 mh
    Z = 4 ohms
    BL = 10,1 N/A
    Pe = 300 Watts

    Kombination parameters
    Qts = 0,533
    n* = 0,56%
    Sens = 89,68 (1 Watt)



    All specs are from a JBL car audio brochure released in Europe around year 2000
    any anomalies in the specs are probably misprints in that brochure

  4. #4
    Senior Member Lee in Montreal's Avatar
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    Great info. And surprinsingly, I expected a lower Fs and higher Xmas from the 1800.

    It looks like a 2245h remains a better option in 18"

  5. #5
    Senior Member 1audiohack's Avatar
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    Not for me, I have settled with two GTI1800's in my home main. With room gain and no EQ they easily play flat down to 28-30 Hz and they are WAY tougher than 2245's, we have broken more than one of those by the way, the 1800's still feel, measure and sound as new some six years later.

    That room has had 2-2241's, 2-2242's, 2&4 Sub1500's and 2,4&6 2234's and 2,4&6 2235's and the 1800's keep finding their way back as the favorites.
    If we knew what the hell we were doing, we wouldn't call it research would we.

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    My interest in the GTI series was ignited by a search for an uber robust JBL midbass for use betwin a sub and up to about 1khz, therefor i wanted to research the orgin of the GTI 800 and the GTI 1000 in hope of finding a pro version with sligthly better bandwith.

    I have currently the options of reconing some 2226`s for that use.
    There are also a pair of LE14H-3 and 6 4612 cabaret speakers for sale relatively local, the 4612`s i can butcher for their 2118J drivers, but i am a bit unshure of using 14" or 15" for this and arent the 2118 a bit fragile for use in the 70-80hz region?

    The sub octaves are already covered, it involves drivers made in USA a decade or 2 back, but not of any brand spoken of on this site, so i guess ill better not mention much about those

  7. #7
    Senior Member Lee in Montreal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1audiohack View Post
    Not for me, I have settled with two GTI1800's in my home main. With room gain and no EQ they easily play flat down to 28-30 Hz and they are WAY tougher than 2245's
    Again, good info. So what would be the difference between the 1800 GTi and a good old 2240? Both have Fs30Hz, but on a different generation of basket and coils. Power handling?

  8. #8
    Senior Member Eaulive's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lee in Montreal View Post
    Again, good info. So what would be the difference between the 1800 GTi and a good old 2240? Both have Fs30Hz, but on a different generation of basket and coils. Power handling?
    If they are based on the 2241 they have VGC technology and can handle more power.

    JBL claimed that the 2241 was a direct replacement for the 2240, allowing 3dB more output in the same enclosure.
    Same efficiency but more power handling.

    In most applications, the 2241G/H can provide more
    low frequency response, 3 dB more output and less
    distortion than the 2240G/H, with little or no enclosure
    retuning.
    From the 2241 datasheet

  9. #9
    Senior Member HCSGuy's Avatar
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    I will preface my comment with the disclaimer that I have not sold Car Audio since about when these woofers came out, and I am running off memory, so I will not defend my comments to the death, so to speak. If I remember from JBL training on these woofers, they were not designed to boom like woofers do today. In-car audio processing was much more rudimentary back then, so JBL tweaked the woofers to get flat frequency response inside the car, versus in a room. It's very different in a car, as you tend to get rising "Room" gain as frequency drops, and you don't have to worry about standing waves, as the dimensions of a car interior are smaller than 1/2 wavelength of all low bass frequencies. If you look at JBL's recommended tunings for the 1500, you will see that it would kind of suck as a home subwoofer - JBL's recommended tuning puts f3 at 38hz and falling fast. With fs of 35hz and VAS of 8 cubic feet, you're never going to get to home subwoofer territory. My experience with these was that they sounded really good installed, but didn't sell because they didn't boom - our demo space was your typical car audio sound room, which is the size of a typical home theater, not a car interior, so we didn't get the room gain JBL built into their design. The exception to this is the 1800GTI, which I've never heard, but which looks much closer to expectations for a home unit, with f3 in the high 20hz range, albeit in their recommended 12 cubic foot enclosure (Never seen a box that big in car audio). I think the 1800GTI was based off the 2240, BTW, with its shorter XMax (5.5mm for the 1800GTI and 2240 versus 7.6mm on the 2241) but I'm not going to war with anyone who feels differently. Anyway, here are links to JBL's tuning for the 1500GTI:
    http://www.jbl.com/resources/Brands/...rs/1500GTI.pdf
    and 1800GTI:
    http://www.jbl.com/resources/Brands/...rs/1800GTI.pdf

    And a snapshot of their recommended tuning for the 1500GTI:


    JBL's recommended tunings for the 1500GTI
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  10. #10
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    HCSGuy

    1800 GTI
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    Magnetic gap depth 8,1mm, Voice Coil Winding Depth 19,05mm in both my broshure and your link, Xmax 7,6mm in my broshure, 5,5mm in your link

    2241
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    Magnetic gap depth 8,1mm, Voice Coil Winding Depth 19,05mm, Xmax 7,6mm
    Source: http://www.jblpro.com/pages/pub/components/2241.pdf

    2240
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    Magnetic gap depth 9mm,Voice Coil Winding Depth 19mm Xmax 5,5mm
    Source: http://www.jblpro.com/pub/obsolete/2240gh.pdf

    I belive that since the motor on the 1800 GTI looks identical to a 2241, and have the same Magnetic gap depth and both also share the same Voice Coil Winding Depth
    they should also share the same Xmax, so my conclusion are that 7,6mm are probably the correct number on the 1800, 1500 and 1200 GTI`s

  11. #11
    Senior Member 1audiohack's Avatar
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    I concur, for what little it's worth.
    If we knew what the hell we were doing, we wouldn't call it research would we.

  12. #12
    Heather [Senorita member] hjames's Avatar
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    I did a quick web search but there doesn't look to be many of these JBL GTI 1800 speakers around
    - I gather its an older model and perhaps out of production?
    2ch: Oppo, JoLida 502CRC, JBL L212, 18ti,240ti; Heath AS101, Von Schweikert VR4
    7.1: Oppo BDP103D, B&K, UREI 809A, JBL B460

  13. #13
    Senior Member HCSGuy's Avatar
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    I agree - the bumped back plate is definitely 2241, not 2240.

    Heather, these are long gone - I think they came out in '92-93 or so...

  14. #14
    Senior Member 1audiohack's Avatar
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    When the C4RGTI1800 became obsolete, the C4R2241 kit became the option to repair them. The basket / motor assembly is absolutely identical to the 2241.
    If we knew what the hell we were doing, we wouldn't call it research would we.

  15. #15
    Senior Member John W's Avatar
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    Here are some pictures of my 10 inch 1000GTI woofers.
    It would be great if there was a way to recone them as mid drivers, like 2123.
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