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Thread: JBL Array 1400 - cabinets are live!

  1. #46
    Senior Member timc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pos View Post
    whereas the Klipch is not
    Are you sure about this?
    2213 + 2435HPL w/aquaplas + H9800 (Matsj edition)

  2. #47
    Senior Member richluvsound's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dcolak View Post
    Who called GT an idiot? I certainly did not.

    The way Arrays portray music, for example the soundtrack of Conan the barbarian is nothing short of AWESOME.

    I can hear every single instrument, every single cough, every single whisper in the orchestra.

    The sheer emotion that Arrays convey is priceless.

    Before purchasing Arrays I compared them with the ATC's, which are mighty good speakers.



    Before listening to ATC's I had Arrays in my house for several weeks, on a trial.

    After listening the ATC's all I could think of was "now it's too late the shop is closed, I'll go tomorrow first thing in a morning and buy the Arrays, I want them even more now that I have heard the ATC's"

    So no, I am not a JBL basher, my second favourite speakers are JBL S312II, now that I have Klipsch RF83 sold.

    Never the less, I am still very much surprised that GT called those enclosures "inert and vibration free" and I am still surprised that Arrays are not very usable for partying.

    Do you have Array 1400's?

    Do they not vibrate like crazy with anything over 5W RMS?

    Do they not pierce your ears with anything over 60W RMS?

    Did you hear Klipsch RF83 with 70+W RMS?

    All I would like to know is do I have a lemon pair of Arrays or do they all have live cabinets that vibrate strongly.


    Tim makes a good point about the PA amp ..... the high end JBL's will show up anything weak in the chain.

    I use class A or Valves .... Digital format @ high bit rates through a stand alone DAC into these !

    http://www.audioheritage.org/vbullet...624&viewfull=1

    I found lesser amplification too bright also , but getting better amps has made all the difference .

    If I wanted a JBL party speaker I would have kept the 4345's

    I did have a pair of Klipsch RF 30's ... I think thats what they were . Quite old .... they didn't age much more in my possession either . I didn't find them very musical ,driven bi-wired with 2 X QUAD 909's

    I have found that the better my system has become ,the smaller my music collection has become . Poor recordings don't get played when I want to enjoy the best qualities of the system !

  3. #48
    Senior Member pos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by timc View Post
    Are you sure about this?
    Yes, according to the specs this is a tractrix horn

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by richluvsound View Post
    Tim makes a good point about the PA amp ..... the high end JBL's will show up anything weak in the chain.

    I use class A or Valves .... Digital format @ high bit rates through a stand alone DAC into these !

    http://www.audioheritage.org/vbullet...624&viewfull=1

    I found lesser amplification too bright also , but getting better amps has made all the difference .

    If I wanted a JBL party speaker I would have kept the 4345's

    I did have a pair of Klipsch RF 30's ... I think thats what they were . Quite old .... they didn't age much more in my possession either . I didn't find them very musical ,driven bi-wired with 2 X QUAD 909's

    I have found that the better my system has become ,the smaller my music collection has become . Poor recordings don't get played when I want to enjoy the best qualities of the system !
    I am playing with valves too, at this point.







    Yamaha P5000S should be perfectly flat, not bright, but who knows.

    It's fun to play with different amps

    This one has less wide, not so finely defined sound stage and a bit more noise, compared with Yamaha P5000S.

    The problem with the music collection does exist, I have it too.

  5. #50
    Senior Member richluvsound's Avatar
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    I still think you need to get the speakers checked over for piece of mind ... then start trying different gear .

    The 840 is a highly regarded CD , but not by me . I'm a firm believer that the Array 1400 deserves better
    signal processing .

    It would be nice to move them away from that back wall a metre and give them a listen ...

    We all have different priorities when it comes to how much room and money to allocate to this hobby ....

    I'm sad, as its my highest priority . With a pair of speakers like yours I would not give up till they were
    what I wanted

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by richluvsound View Post
    I still think you need to get the speakers checked over for piece of mind ... then start trying different gear .

    The 840 is a highly regarded CD , but not by me . I'm a firm believer that the Array 1400 deserves better
    signal processing .

    It would be nice to move them away from that back wall a metre and give them a listen ...

    We all have different priorities when it comes to how much room and money to allocate to this hobby ....

    I'm sad, as its my highest priority . With a pair of speakers like yours I would not give up till they were
    what I wanted
    The front baffle is 1m from the back wall. If I move them more into the room, there will be no space left for casual dancing!

    I'll probably open one of the speakers and take pictures of the inside of the enclosure. That way we will be able to compare them.

  7. #52
    Senior Member timc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pos View Post
    Yes, according to the specs this is a tractrix horn
    So you can't have a CD Tractrix?

    The Klipsch is not a "pure" tractrix. It is a special design.
    2213 + 2435HPL w/aquaplas + H9800 (Matsj edition)

  8. #53
    Senior Member grumpy's Avatar
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    1) running the Cambridge straight into the yamaha
    (no line amp)?

    2) I listened to Spanish Sky on two different JBL horn
    based systems today... TiDome's K2s and my own 'custom'
    setup. With the K2's I could hear more of the studio
    processing... which has a reverb/echo with the delayed
    signal rolled off... it does have a bit of a dual voice
    character (not an overdub or simple delay). My thought
    is that you are hearing more of that aspect of the
    recording, whether 'correct' or somehow enhanced in
    your listening environment.

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by grumpy View Post
    1) running the Cambridge straight into the yamaha
    (no line amp)?

    2) I listened to Spanish Sky on two different JBL horn
    based systems today... TiDome's K2s and my own 'custom'
    setup. With the K2's I could hear more of the studio
    processing... which has a reverb/echo with the delayed
    signal rolled off... it does have a bit of a dual voice
    character (not an overdub or simple delay). My thought
    is that you are hearing more of that aspect of the
    recording, whether 'correct' or somehow enhanced in
    your listening environment.
    And i said, "Send that disc back to Spain."
    Out.

  10. #55
    Senior Member pos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by timc View Post
    So you can't have a CD Tractrix?
    I don't think so, as it defines the profile of the horn.
    It is not as bad as an exponential horn in term of beaming, but still quite beamy at high frequencies...

  11. #56
    Senior Member timc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pos View Post
    I don't think so, as it defines the profile of the horn.
    It is not as bad as an exponential horn in term of beaming, but still quite beamy at high frequencies...

    This i have to check out. Interesting........
    2213 + 2435HPL w/aquaplas + H9800 (Matsj edition)

  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by grumpy View Post
    1) running the Cambridge straight into the yamaha
    (no line amp)?

    2) I listened to Spanish Sky on two different JBL horn
    based systems today... TiDome's K2s and my own 'custom'
    setup. With the K2's I could hear more of the studio
    processing... which has a reverb/echo with the delayed
    signal rolled off... it does have a bit of a dual voice
    character (not an overdub or simple delay). My thought
    is that you are hearing more of that aspect of the
    recording, whether 'correct' or somehow enhanced in
    your listening environment.
    1) Yes -> Cambridge Audio 840C 2.1V output directly into input sensitivity 6dBu. Nothing to smear the sound between the source and the amplifier. RCA and XLR outputs sound the same.

    2) That's nice to hear. Yes, it sounds as if the lower registers of his voice come later and separated from the higher registers. As if the horn was playing half of his voice and the rest of it came from the woofer. Thank you for doing the test.

  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Titanium Dome View Post
    And i said, "Send that disc back to Spain."
    As richluvsound said, better the loudspeaker, less music we can enjoy.

    Hm, that doesn't seem right, does it?

    That's the context I mentioned JBL S312II's in. With them, all the music sounds nice and rarely you think something is bothering you. The combination of VirtueAudio TWO -> JBL S312II is really good.

    With Arrays, I have to look for the music that sounds ok.

    Most of it was produced horribly, compression, digital clipping (ok, that one I can hear on S312II's too), horribly armed soundstage, with the drums taking up the whole stage, hi-hats on left and right side, singer to the left, piano size of a bus etc.

    That's why valves help, they smear everything a bit, so it makes us less aware of all the faults in the production, IMHO.

  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by dcolak View Post
    I was wandering if anyone else on the forum have Array 1400's?



    Gregg Timbers wrote that the "vibration free" enclosure was a prime goal to be met with the Arrays, but, the ones I have are vibrating like crazy.

    The sonoglass part of the enclosure is vibrating as if it was a passive transducer!

    Side walls, back walls are also vibrating, much more than Klipsch RF-83 boxes that cost ~10x less.



    For a 11K USD speaker I was expecting a well dampened enclosure. This one is as live as it can be.

    Did the quality of Arrays go down since they were being made in Mexico?
    ... well what can I say , everyone who has build a cabinet knows what it means when it resonate , but if other members have the speakers and they are not having the same problem , either something is wrong with your speaker or configuration . You must then hear an array 1400 that doesn´t resonate to really know if you are missing something .

    Also I do not think those speakers rated at 89dB sensibility can be well driven by a 1 watt "mini amp" , I have a pair of "over 100db" sensitivity speakers driven by 1.5 watts and they are "just enough" to get good sound .

  15. #60
    Moderator hjames's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dcolak View Post
    As richluvsound said, better the loudspeaker, less music we can enjoy.

    Hm, that doesn't seem right, does it?

    That's why valves help, they smear everything a bit, so it makes us less aware of all the faults in the production, IMHO. .
    yep BoPutnam is a sound engineer and he has said the same thing (he's got 4345 monitors) - some speakers are like high end analysis tools - you can hear every flaw. Good if you are mixing records and WANT to hear every glitch - but if you just want to enjoy the music, maybe not so good!
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