THERE IS ALWAYS A CHANCE YOU GOT A BAD PAIR...........
My pair sounds just fine
THERE IS ALWAYS A CHANCE YOU GOT A BAD PAIR...........
My pair sounds just fine
I am not sure his don't sound fine... they just vibrate and he is concerned about that... if you read JA's technical review of the speaker that I posted earlier, the cabinets do vibrate... quite a bit for such a fine speaker, but they also found that it doesn't seem to be much of an audible issue.Originally Posted by Valentin
THERE IS ALWAYS A CHANCE YOU GOT A BAD PAIR...........
My pair sounds just fine
If a speaker vibrates even though it doesn't color the sound much, if you spend more time worrying about the possible ill effects that the live cabinet may make on your sound than enjoying the excellent music that it reproduces, you will probably never be happy with the speaker. In this hobby of ours many people get caught up in solid state vs. tubes, horns vs. cones and domes, and numerous other aspects of the audio chain... things that we as end users have no control over... just listen. Trust your ears... if it sounds good to you, then it is good, if it does not sound good, then move on.
Widget
on target
Did you put your hand on the enclosure while playing the music? It's vibrating like crazy, almost as if it was intentionally made like thatTHERE IS ALWAYS A CHANCE YOU GOT A BAD PAIR...........
My pair sounds just fineThe sono glass vibrates even more than side, front and back walls of the loudspeaker.
Does it influence the sound? Probably, how can it not influence, vibrating so much.
Does it make me unhappy? Not at all.
I was just surprised that Greg Timbers would call those boxes "inert and vibration free" they are everything but that.
What I can assure you is that Array 1400 sound much worse and show signs of distortion and muddled sound when giving them around 100W RMS compared to Klipsch RF83 that sound completely clean with that kind of power.
Of course, Klipsch do not have the amount of transparency and details that offer the Arrays.
The amp has 500W RMS and I never get it even close to clipping.
With 100+W RMS the enclosure vibration is audible. I guess JA of Stereophile never made a party during the Array review.
I'm happy with the purchase, but I was wandering, maybe my pair really lacks the bracing within the enclosures. I never saw a speaker vibrate as much in any price range.
My other speakers are JBL S312II, JBL S38II, Klipsch B2, Klipsch RF83 (sold)
By the way I moved the Arrays away from the walls but it doesn't really fix the problem with Chris Isaak's Blue Spanish Sky song, where his voice comes out as if it were two persons singing (one with the high pitch, one with the low pitch).
Those with Arrays, can you please listen to that song? How does his voice come out? As one coherent sound or as if there are two singers?
My other speakers do not exibit the voice separation into low and high registers.
"....
What I can assure you is that Array 1400 sound much worse and show signs of distortion and muddled sound when giving them around 100W RMS compared to Klipsch RF83 that sound completely clean with that kind of power. With 100W RMS the enclosure vibration is being audible.
....."
Well, Do you really think you are giving the cabinets 100Watts? If you are, and I am skeptical, then there will be distortion and vibration and all sorts of other things. Certainly your own hearing will be "over-driven" at that level and not very good.
Yes, to be precise, I'm giving them 97W RMS (into 6ohm.)
My room is 6x7m, no apparent vibrations of any kind. We do like to party and with Klipsches people were always screaming into my ear "turn it up!" no matter how much W I gave them. Of course, they had to scream into my ear for me to be able to hear them.
With JBL Arrays, people are screaming turn it down it hurts our ears
Boy, I was thinking the same thing. My DIY rig puts out 90 db at 1 watt (measured data). While the 1400 is less efficient, I still can't imagine . . .
It's a party, not a casual listening.Boy, I was thinking the same thing. My DIY rig puts out 90 db at 1 watt (measured data). While the 1400 is less efficient, I still can't imagine . . .
For partying I use -10dB attenuation on Yamaha P5000S, with 2.1V input that gives me 24.2V into 6ohm output, or ~97W RMS
With Klipsches, you still can enjoy the music as much as the partying, with JBL, you must turn it down.
For day to day listening I am more than happy with -30dB attenuation that gives me 2.4V -> ~0.96W output
I never let people screm into my ears, if you do, then no wonder your hearing is shot!
You are the only person I have heard of having this problem . GT is an idiot , we at the forum are useless and all the reviews are lies ! Just call your dealer and have him come and hear your complaint .
Frankly , its a waste of bandwidth .
I guess they are just crap speakers . just buy some more Klipsch !
Hey hey, my hearing is just fine I measure it frecuently. It's a figure of speach "to scream into my ear"I never let people screm into my ears, if you do, then no wonder your hearing is shot!
Who called GT an idiot? I certainly did not.
The way Arrays portray music, for example the soundtrack of Conan the barbarian is nothing short of AWESOME.
I can hear every single instrument, every single cough, every single whisper in the orchestra.
The sheer emotion that Arrays convey is priceless.
Before purchasing Arrays I compared them with the ATC's, which are mighty good speakers.
Before listening to ATC's I had Arrays in my house for several weeks, on a trial.
After listening the ATC's all I could think of was "now it's too late the shop is closed, I'll go tomorrow first thing in a morning and buy the Arrays, I want them even more now that I have heard the ATC's"
So no, I am not a JBL basher, my second favourite speakers are JBL S312II, now that I have Klipsch RF83 sold.
Never the less, I am still very much surprised that GT called those enclosures "inert and vibration free" and I am still surprised that Arrays are not very usable for partying.
Do you have Array 1400's?
Do they not vibrate like crazy with anything over 5W RMS?
Do they not pierce your ears with anything over 60W RMS?
Did you hear Klipsch RF83 with 70+W RMS?
All I would like to know is do I have a lemon pair of Arrays or do they all have live cabinets that vibrate strongly.
That the Array sounds harsh at high levels is new to me. I have driven them to extreme (in my ears) levels, and everything was still smooooth. Are you sure you are not listening to other shortcommings in your system (or room). Personally i would be skeptical at running a relativly cheap PA amplifier on that horn. It's ridicilously revealing.
2213 + 2435HPL w/aquaplas + H9800 (Matsj edition)
How many W RMS did you feed them with? I am really interested in knowing that information, it puts things into perspective.
If you used 30-40W RMS we are not talking about the same thing.
On the other hand, I am suspecting my Cambridge Audio 840C might be a bit bright, altough all the meassurements are showing it has perfectly flat response.
Yamaha P5000S is a clean, powerful, class "D" amplifier with nice, balanced sound with low distortion and low noise levels.
I cannot recommend it highly enough.
If you find them harsh at high level that might have more to do with HF than LF and cabinet vibration.
The directivity pattern of a horn speaker, and especially the array, is very different from a cone speaker. As it is constant direcititvy you get much more overall HF in your power response.
Look at these measurements:
Array 1400:
http://www.audioheritage.org/vbullet...1&d=1156648272
PT800 Perforcamne (certainly simiular to your klipch speaker in term of direcitivty pattern)
http://www.audioheritage.org/vbullet...1&d=1157034351
Pay a close attention to the total power response (4th curve from top, the lowest of the top curves). You see that it tends to drop with frequency on conventional cone speakers (10dB drop between1khz and 15khz), whereas it remains much flatter with the array (no significant drop between 1khz and 15khz).
This is what constant direcitivty brings you, but it can be a problem if your room is live, especially at high levels and when you are far away from the speakers, because what you hear then is mostly the power response.
If that is the case you have two options: treat your room with some good dampening (and possibly more sophisicated treatments), or use some EQ to lower the HF level during parties.
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