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Thread: JBL Array 1400 - cabinets are live!

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by joaquin View Post
    ... well what can I say , everyone who has build a cabinet knows what it means when it resonate , but if other members have the speakers and they are not having the same problem , either something is wrong with your speaker or configuration . You must then hear an array 1400 that doesnīt resonate to really know if you are missing something .

    Also I do not think those speakers rated at 89dB sensibility can be well driven by a 1 watt "mini amp" , I have a pair of "over 100db" sensitivity speakers driven by 1.5 watts and they are "just enough" to get good sound .
    Yamaha P5000S has 500W RMS per channel.

    It seems that all Arrays vibrate. Can you hear it is a different question.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hjames View Post
    yep BoPutnam is a sound engineer and he has said the same thing (he's got 4345 monitors) - some speakers are like high end analysis tools - you can hear every flaw. Good if you are mixing records and WANT to hear every glitch - but if you just want to enjoy the music, maybe not so good!
    Hey Heather, I like that picture.

    Grumpy and Sanjay (from AVS) were over yesterday, and I was waxing eloquent (okay, long-winded) on why I'm glad to have several systems in the house. All my music sounds good on at least one of them.

    Some of it really irritates me on the K2s, but sounds good on the L5s or even the L100s. If it's really well recorded, it sounds fantastic on the K2s and good on lesser systems. If something has just a bit too much HF edge on the K2s, the S/2600s make it sound like gold. There truly is no single answer for me.
    In.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Titanium Dome View Post
    Hey Heather, I like that picture.

    Grumpy and Sanjay (from AVS) were over yesterday, and I was waxing eloquent (okay, long-winded) on why I'm glad to have several systems in the house. All my music sounds good on at least one of them.

    Some of it really irritates me on the K2s, but sounds good on the L5s or even the L100s. If it's really well recorded, it sounds fantastic on the K2s and good on lesser systems. If something has just a bit too much HF edge on the K2s, the S/2600s make it sound like gold. There truly is no single answer for me.
    That's the road I took too. JBL S38II in one dormitory, Klipsch B-3 in another, JBL S312II in my office, Array 1400 in living. It's nice to be able to say "hm, what would Klipsches do with this?"

    Amplifiers go from Trends TA10.1, Dayens Ampino, VirtueAudio TWO, NuForce Icon to Yamaha P3500S and P5000S All kinds of combinations, each of them sounds as good as it can in its room

  4. #64
    Senior Member richluvsound's Avatar
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    Have you tried bi-amping ?

  5. #65
    Administrator Mr. Widget's Avatar
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    My 2 cents...

    I am not going to comment on all that has been posted above, but I will say that as much as I like the 1400 Array speakers, I do not think they sound particularly great if insane SPLs are your goal. (I define insane as >105dB) If you really want to kick some butt at levels above 105dB with some degree of grace a 4" compression driver and one or more 15" woofers per channel is needed in my opinion. The Everest II is in this category as is the venerable 4350/55... both of these loudspeakers will play back at absolutely stupid sound pressure levels and sound good doing it. I rarely if ever listen at anything approaching these levels any more and therefore the 1400 Array maintains it's composure for me and sounds pretty darned good.

    FWIW: A few minutes ago I did turn up my 1400 Arrays... as much as I could with an 80 wpc amp and yes the cabinets were noticeably excited... but far less than many things in my listening room.


    Widget

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    Quote Originally Posted by dcolak View Post
    Yamaha P5000S has 500W RMS per channel.
    ... you state somewhere else that moving this speaker with 0.5 watts is enough . Its impossible , and if you use 50watts or more it resonate . How can you expect to use 500W then and have good sound .


    Quote Originally Posted by dcolak View Post
    It seems that all Arrays vibrate.
    Its curious that statement if the designer was looking for the opposite , donīt you believe?

    Vibration on the woofer enclosure = distortion .

    Vibration on the horn = "ringing" -> distortion -> ear fatigue .

    I had several horns in the past , including a CDH . CDH is not for home . and 11K box should not resonate not in the horn not in the bass .

    very strange .

  7. #67
    Senior Member richluvsound's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Widget View Post
    I am not going to comment on all that has been posted above, but I will say that as much as I like the 1400 Array speakers, I do not think they sound particularly great if insane SPLs are your goal. (I define insane as >105dB) If you really want to kick some butt at levels above 105dB with some degree of grace a 4" compression driver and one or more 15" woofers per channel is needed in my opinion. The Everest II is in this category as is the venerable 4350/55... both of these loudspeakers will play back at absolutely stupid sound pressure levels and sound good doing it. I rarely if ever listen at anything approaching these levels any more and therefore the 1400 Array maintains it's composure for me and sounds pretty darned good.

    FWIW: A few minutes ago I did turn up my 1400 Arrays... as much as I could with an 80 wpc amp and yes the cabinets were noticeably excited... but far less than many things in my listening room.


    Widget


    this is why I said " if I wanted a party speaker I would have kept my 4345's "

    thanks for cutting to the core of the debate

  8. #68
    Heather [Senorita member] hjames's Avatar
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    you know, the way some folks in this thread are absolutely disputing the designer of the speakers, I'd almost think there is trolling going on in this thread.

    There are so many pro sound speakers that would really work better for a high volume application ...

    Why would anyone run a pair of array 1400s at crazy loud sound levels.
    Not that you can't, but considering the money involved and all of that, why would you.

    If that's what they want to do, more power to them - but they don't need my support for such behavior.
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  9. #69
    Administrator Robh3606's Avatar
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    this is why I said " if I wanted a party speaker I would have kept my 4345's "
    It's nice to have both. The mains in my HT can do 105db all day and not break a sweet. Gives me lots of clean headroom on movies. That said I never run them that loud. I was just playing my Arrays up there and I gave out before they did. Was hitting 108db peaks on the spl meter. I can't for the life of me understand how the sonoglass horn could be vibrating all that much. Mine sure don't.

    Rob
    "I could be arguing in my spare time"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robh3606 View Post
    It's nice to have both. The mains in my HT can do 105db all day and not break a sweet. Gives me lots of clean headroom on movies. That said I never run them that loud. I was just playing my Arrays up there and I gave out before they did. Was hitting 108db peaks on the spl meter. I can't for the life of me understand how the sonoglass horn could be vibrating all that much. Mine sure don't.

    Rob
    You have DYI Arrays or the ones from the JBL? Maybe it's in the way they are connected to the bass enclosure?

    The top part of the enclosure is covered with sonoglass and as Widget described, they get rather excited with 80W

    I'm perfectly happy with Arrays.

    They'll do an ocasional party well, not as well as Klipsch RF-83 but, who cares.

    99.99% of time I am not using more than 1W of my Yamaha P5000s.

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    Quote Originally Posted by joaquin View Post
    ... you state somewhere else that moving this speaker with 0.5 watts is enough . Its impossible , and if you use 50watts or more it resonate . How can you expect to use 500W then and have good sound .
    Maybe because the sole fact that an amplifier has 500W RMS does not mean I have to use all 500W RMS.

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by hjames View Post
    you know, the way some folks in this thread are absolutely disputing the designer of the speakers, I'd almost think there is trolling going on in this thread.

    There are so many pro sound speakers that would really work better for a high volume application ...

    Why would anyone run a pair of array 1400s at crazy loud sound levels.
    Not that you can't, but considering the money involved and all of that, why would you.
    Feeding 98W RMS into Arrays is a high volume application?

    I beg to differ, 98W RMS into a 89db/1w/1m with a 200+W RMS woofer should not be that much of a big deal.

    I think we have this thread resolved.

    Mr. Widget confirmed that his enclosures get excited rather well with 80W RMS so... I think we're experiencing the same thing and my pair of Arrays most probably is perfectly well within the design parameters.

    We also resolved the "problem" of the Chris Isaak's Blue spanish sky recording that has his voice divided in two registers - bad production.

    If you have an oportunity, give those babies 80W RMS and put your hand on the back of the horn or anywhere on the enclosure. It'll surprise you

    I'll go back to enjoying Arrays, when the recording is well made, they sound most impressive.

  13. #73
    Heather [Senorita member] hjames's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dcolak View Post
    Feeding 98W RMS into Arrays is a high volume application?

    I beg to differ, 98W RMS into a 89db/1w/1m with a 200+W RMS woofer should not be that much of a big deal.

    I'll go back to enjoying Arrays, when the recording is well made, they sound most impressive.
    It really depends on the efficiency, doesn't it ...
    Its not the wattage, its the volume level - Where do you have your level pot set?
    I run my biamped 4 ways with roughly 400w speaker, but I never turn them up much so I never get them very loud.
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  14. #74
    Obviously... not a golfer grumpy's Avatar
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    Glad you've sorted this out to your satisfaction.

    Re: "We also resolved the "problem" of the Chris Isaak's Blue spanish sky recording that has his voice divided in two registers - bad production."

    I'll just comment that "bad" or otherwise, you were likely
    hearing further "into" the recording (I can't know the
    producer's intent), but generally I'd say this a good thing.

    Congrats on some fine speakers.
    It's uh... uh... it's down there somewhere, let me take another look...

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by grumpy View Post

    Congrats on some fine speakers.
    Yes, enjoy them for what they are, not for what they aren't.

    We just got back from the Long Beach Symphony's Cirque de la Symphonie pops performance, and there's no speaker made that will recreate that experience. Then we wandered over to the Gay Pride Celebration ("Don't you effin' look at me!!!" [Dennis Hopper, Blue Velvet]) for some Pit Bull, and no speaker will recreate that either!

    I'm just glad I survived the freakin' Rapture and get to live through several months of Hell on Earth before the total destruction of the planet on October 6th. Oh, wait a minute... I didn't get taken up into Heaven did I? Oops, screwed again.

    I'll spend the next four months just being happy with the JBLs I've got I guess.
    In.

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