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Thread: ATI Amplifiers

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Allanvh5150 View Post
    I had to chuckle when I read the brochure, in particular, the part describing how the ampifiers are fully ballanced. One side does the positive part of the waveform and the other side does the negative.....really?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eaulive View Post
    Actually that's true.
    In a balanced line there's two signals of equal amplitude 180º apart. Usually one is labelled "+" and the other one "-", even if their respective voltage can go from positive to negative against each other.
    In a normal amplifier, these two signals are summed and turned into one signal which has it's amplitude related to ground, or neutral, this signal is then amplified and deliverd to the speaker through the red binding post in the back, the black one is the neutral, chassis, or ground.

    In those amplifiers, if I understand well, there is one amplifier for each of the signals and these signals are fed to the speaker directly, none of the binding post is grounded and both carry voltage, kind of like a bridged amplifier.

    At least that's what I make of it.

    I'm not saying it's better either
    Even though I have a fully dedicated 20 Amp circuit for the K2 system only, I could always hear a low 60 Hz hum through the speakers at idle. I noticed that when I put balanced amps in the system it diminished. With the ATI "fully balanced" architecture, it disappeared. Since it bothered me A LOT, it was a key factor in choosing the ATI over more expensive brands, along with all the things already mentioned above.

    Fortunately, the old Outlaw 990 allows balanced outs to balanced ins on the ATI. It is not a subtle difference in background noise and noise floor.

    Now if I could get the damn refrigerator and Radon evacuation system to be silent, I'd be all set. Oh, and those contemptible neighborhood dogs, and the traffic, and the boats in the harbor, and the wind, and...
    Out.

  2. #32
    Senior Member Audiobeer's Avatar
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    What is the street price for a new AT 3000 series with 2 channels?

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Audiobeer View Post
    What is the street price for a new AT 3000 series with 2 channels?
    http://classicaudioparts.com/store/a...-for-sale.html

    I have to say, these prices are higher than a couple of weeks ago. In the case of the 3002, I'm thinking it's at least a couple hundred bucks more, though the full retail price is the same.
    Out.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eaulive View Post
    Actually that's true.
    In a balanced line there's two signals of equal amplitude 180º apart. Usually one is labelled "+" and the other one "-", even if their respective voltage can go from positive to negative against each other.
    In a normal amplifier, these two signals are summed and turned into one signal which has it's amplitude related to ground, or neutral, this signal is then amplified and deliverd to the speaker through the red binding post in the back, the black one is the neutral, chassis, or ground.

    In those amplifiers, if I understand well, there is one amplifier for each of the signals and these signals are fed to the speaker directly, none of the binding post is grounded and both carry voltage, kind of like a bridged amplifier.

    At least that's what I make of it.

    I'm not saying it's better either
    Not Kinda like, it is a bridged amplifier. Heaps of advantages, power supply voltage a lot lower so can be made with inexpensive parts, input noise is reduced dramatically, double the slew rate......the list goes on.

  5. #35
    Senior Member Eaulive's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Allanvh5150 View Post
    Not Kinda like, it is a bridged amplifier. Heaps of advantages, power supply voltage a lot lower so can be made with inexpensive parts, input noise is reduced dramatically, double the slew rate......the list goes on.
    A normal amplifier in bridge mode does not keep the integrity of the signal throughout.
    It takes the balanced input, sums it and then passes it unbalanced through the low level circuitry and attenuators, THEN re splits it into two signals of opposite polarity before amplifying them.
    That's why I say "kinda like"

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eaulive View Post
    A normal amplifier in bridge mode does not keep the integrity of the signal throughout.
    It takes the balanced input, sums it and then passes it unbalanced through the low level circuitry and attenuators, THEN re splits it into two signals of opposite polarity before amplifying them.
    That's why I say "kinda like"
    Depends what sort of amplifier it is. I have amplifiers here with balanced inputs with a phase spliter directly after and then into the maine amp circuit. Balanced in balanced out when running in bridge mode.

  7. #37
    Senior Member Eaulive's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Allanvh5150 View Post
    Depends what sort of amplifier it is. I have amplifiers here with balanced inputs with a phase spliter directly after and then into the maine amp circuit. Balanced in balanced out when running in bridge mode.
    Maybe, I don't see why it couldn't be possible, but I never saw any, and I fixed quite my share of amplifiers in my life

    What's the brand of the one you talk about? Seems like an interesting design.

  8. #38
    Senior Member DavidF's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Titanium Dome View Post
    The next day, a Saturday, I reconnected the amps using balanced XLRs. Luckily, the 990 has two balanced sub outs.

    I put on the heretofore annoying disk, Vital Idol, and was struck by how much better it sounded. In fact, it sounded fantastic. I switched back and forth between analog audio bypass (Oppo BDP-83SE analog out to the CD inputs) and digital in (Oppo via optical cable out to DVD inputs) and really couldn't discern any difference. They both sounded great, and I listened to the whole darned CD without flinching my ears once.

    Then I tried classical, dance, acoustic guitar, the ever faithful Heart "The Road Home" live set, jazz, Buble, Groban, Sade, Keys, Lady Antebellum, Beatles, ... couldn't find a thing that didn't sound wonderful.

    Did the amps change? Did I change? Did the balanced cables make the difference? Don't know; don't care. Don't plan to spend time worrying about it. The amps are effortless, boundless, silent workers creating high quality amplification with no fuss or bother. This camper is happy!

    So there it is: Made in CA amps with a seven year warranty attached to Made in CA speakers with a five year warranty. If I could find a Made in CA pre and a Made in CA source that I both liked and could afford, well wouldn't that be something?
    T D, do you find the amps running moderately warm or decidedly warm at idle? My old mosfet B&K is decidedly warm running on rather high bias and does not fit summer use too well. Looking for a cooler option. Thanks...
    David F
    San Jose

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by DavidF View Post
    T D, do you find the amps running moderately warm or decidedly warm at idle? My old mosfet B&K is decidedly warm running on rather high bias and does not fit summer use too well. Looking for a cooler option. Thanks...
    Hi David. Nice to see you.

    The ATI 2000 and 3000 Series amps have a big chassis. It's meant to hold up to seven 200 or 300 Watt amp modules. With only three modules in mine, they were installed one on the right, one on the left, and one in the center, so there's two empty slots between them.

    I've run them pretty hard a few times, and the heat is negligible in that set up. Putting my hand right on the case above a module reveals some warmth, but I wouldn't call it hot. The Hafler SR amps I have (with internal fans) get much, much hotter.

    The amps are in standby mode all the time. With a trigger cable (included) plugged into the DC trigger receptacle, the rear on/off switch and the front power switch are both left in the "On" position, and when the trigger sends a signal it starts powering up the amp through some soft start process. I can play music right away, but it's a few seconds before the amber light turns green. Grumpy tried to describe to me what's happening, but I got distracted by a squirrel on the deck rail outside and kind of missed it.

    I guess the green light means "phasers at full power."
    Out.

  10. #40
    Senior Member grumpy's Avatar
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    Grumpy tried to describe to me what's happening, but I got distracted by a squirrel on the deck rail outside and kind of missed it.
    The funny thing is that's precisely what happened

    I was guessing that a resistor in-line with the power transformer was being shunted
    (shorted across) by a time-delayed relay... and this was both the 'click' and change
    in LED status from stand-by to operate. Such a scheme reduces the initial in-rush
    current associated with using large toroid transformers (keeps circuit breakers from
    unnecessarily popping and the room lights from dimming ).

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by grumpy View Post
    The funny thing is that's precisely what happened

    I was guessing that a resistor in-line with the power transformer was being shunted
    (shorted across) by a time-delayed relay... and this was both the 'click' and change
    in LED status from stand-by to operate. Such a scheme reduces the initial in-rush
    current associated with using large toroid transformers (keeps circuit breakers from
    unnecessarily popping and the room lights from dimming ).
    Wouldnt it be nice to use real power straight from the wall.....mm mm mm. 240V stock standard here.

  12. #42
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    Cool Famous? Well anonymous famous.

    So ATI's got a new look to its Web site, and I was contacted by them for permission to use my post over at AVS where I was I was peeing all over my leg in excitement about the AT2003 pair I picked up.

    I'm the ATI's "True Balance" Differential Design Architecture quote near the middle of the page. Old AVSer and new Lansing Heritage member penngray is quoted right below me.

    http://ati-amp.com/reviews.php
    Out.

  13. #43
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    There's also a little, downloadable PowerPoint presentation that shows some of the assembly floor activities.

    As seen in the photos, everyone I met there seemed happy and helpful once I found my way in.
    Out.

  14. #44
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    ATI builds Solid , Quality AMPS.
    I have had an AT3007 for about 2 years and loved every moment of it.
    This AMP drives my Home Theater for hours with out even getting much over warm.
    If I had to do it all over....I would buy an ATI AMP again in a heart beat....Great product.


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    Just my $.02
    RayJr

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