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Thread: Education of the working classes: JBL 4333a

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    Dang. Amateur speakerdave's Avatar
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    Education of the working classes: JBL 4333a

    Well, first I have to say that I regret my good luck in getting these speakers was built in part on outdrawing andresohc. Sorry about that. May the gods smile on your BIN finger for the next one.

    I didn't want to say anything the other night because I didn't have the speakers yet. Call me superstitious. The seller said local pick up only, which was fine with me, but I had been limping around town for a week with my fuel tank selector switch hanging out of the dashboard and only working on one side. That was not the way I wanted to head out into the central valley on a hot day. I had to phone all over the county for one and by the time a found one it was Friday afternoon, which meant I ran into traffic in a lot of places on the way.

    I got back from Fresno with the speakers about 2 a m. The spouse and I discussed the situation at some length this morning, and at one point she wondered out loud if stamps or coins might work as a substitute hobby. But I went into a long monologue about the history of audio and Jim Lansing amd Altec Lansing and JBL and why these speakers were historically important and why I in particular wanted them despite the fact that I probably already owned a more advanced set of speakers. When I took her out to the truck to show her the speakers she was actually pleasantly surprised. Thank God for walnut veneer and grille cloth.

    The seller was the nicest guy you would ever want to meet. The speakers had been his father's, and when he moved into a smaller place he offered them to his son. Whenever he tried to play them the voice coils began to knock, and the foam dust was collecting in the bottom of the grille frame, so he looked into what it would take to fix them and just never could bring himself to spend the money. Besides he had his Polk Audio speakers and they were fine. Not long ago his wife said, "Well, they ARE big, and the rooms in this house are not really very large," and that was that.

    The foam on the 2231A's is gone of course, but I couldn't wait to get some idea of what they sound like. Recently I bought a pair of speakers someone built for home audio that had 2225H's in 8' infinite baffles, an 8" Pyle driver and a dome tweeter for playing classical music with a 35 watt amp. The woofers are like brand new, so I popped them in, checking to be sure that both the 2231 and the 2225 used the same JBL reversed polarity convention. Of course the bass is not properly tuned, but if anything they run up into the midrange better than the stock speakers.

    In general the speakers are most impressive. They have a big wonderful, rich, relaxed, enjoyable sound. Even though I could identify shortcomings I still wanted to keep listening to the music coming out of the speakers.

    I'm not set up to A/B speakers, but I tried to do a comparison of the two sets. I'm using a Phillips SA1000 through Cardas interconnects straight into a McIntosh solid state 200wpc amp. I made selections in music which did not rely particularly on the quality of the bass reproduction. At first I played a Karen Casey CD, because I am familiar with the CD and the quality of her voice, having heard her live. I have to say, I don't think the 4333a does a very good job of that. Francis A and Edward K is another story, however. Sinatra's voice cannot be heard, in my opinion, without a big relaxed speaker. Then I put on a Direct Stream Digital SACD of Murray Perahia playing Mozart Concertos. I listened to it all through on the 4333a's. Then I wheeled out the big speakers and put the LSR32's back in their place and am listening to it again. The differences are pronounced. The piano lacks presence with the 4333a. I will have to reserve judgement on this because this could easily result from misalignment of woofer and crossover. One thing I have never been quite satisfied with in the LSR32's is orchestral strings. In that regard the 4333a's work for me. They just make strings sound much more like what I remember them sounding like at Davies Hall, but the LSR's very nearly put the piano in the room.

    I think what this means is that I like the treble of the large monitors with the 2405 and the compression driver/horn upper midrange. And I'm guessing that a four way with with the added cone midbass is going to give me the piano and the strings in one speaker. I have long thought that there is something about horn loading in the midrange and treble that communicates spatial information in a way that domes and cones cannot do it, and this experience confirms that again for me.

    I'm looking forward to hearing the speakers with the stock woofers. What tweaks I attempt after that I can't say right now.

    I want to express my appreciation for the many ways in which this forum has maintained the idea that the JBL large format monitors are a part of the audio legacy which should be preserved. I understand now Bo's notion of custodial responsibility. These speakers will be preserved as long as I have them and when it is time to send them along I will do my best to find them a good home.

    Thanks,

    David

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    Senior Member andresohc's Avatar
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    Congratulations on getting these. I am glad someone from the list has them. I was afraid someone would buy them and piece them out on ebay. I was looking to see if the parts were showing up. It looked like a complete unmolested original set. Let us know about the condition of the voice coils and the diaghragms when you get a chance. My wifes argument was that the last three systems I purchased on ebay all had the majority of the components fried, which she was correct about. She actually has been wonderful about this obsession of mine and one needs to know when to push and when to capitulate. If you get a chance, post some photos, I would love to see the one that got away, live vicariously.

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    Senior Seņor boputnam's Avatar
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    Re: Education of the working classes: JBL 4333a

    Originally posted by speakerdave
    ....she wondered out loud if stamps or coins might work as a substitute hobby.


    Dood!! Both my wifey and I are splitting a gut laughing!

    But you ain't seen nutihin' until you seen a Bose wifey greet a pair of 4345's... Whoa...

    Man, great post, Dave. Interesting in it's duality. Nice.

    I wonder, in you inadvertently reminding us that these larger 43xx series are not plug and play, if you have the means to properly EQ those badboys and then (re)compare them to the newer aged LSR's? That would be interesting, and a first, near as I know. Your articulation of each's merits has me wondering...
    bo

    "Indeed, not!!"

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    Senior Member Audiobeer's Avatar
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    He SCORES!!!!

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    Senior Member Audiobeer's Avatar
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    He SCORES!!!!

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    Dang. Amateur speakerdave's Avatar
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    Re: Re: Education of the working classes: JBL 4333a

    andresohc, Bo, Audiobeer, thank you for the kind remarks. I do indeed feel fortunate to have come upon these speakers in wait of adoption.


    Originally posted by boputnam
    But you ain't seen nutihin' until you seen a Bose wifey greet a pair of 4345's... Whoa...
    The lady has tolerated the exposed 604s in lightly varnished birch ply cabinets for years, so I have nothing but gratitude to her for her accomodation. She is pleased with the looks of these 4333A's--to the point I understand that whatever replaces them needs to be at least as good. While the boys were here, growing up and going through school, we were all pretty casual, but now we have begun looking closely at various items in the house and realizing that some need to go. I think it's part of the empty nest syndrome. I'm perfectly content to fill the empty nest with speakers and amps, but so far that is a lonely proposition, although she has acquiesced to my forewarning that at some point there will be a mono setup in the corner with a Lowther TP-1, that mysterious landing craft looking thing sitting in the garage with a drop cloth draped over it.


    Originally posted by boputnam
    I wonder, in you inadvertently reminding us that these larger 43xx series are not plug and play, if you have the means to properly EQ those badboys and then (re)compare them to the newer aged LSR's? That would be interesting, and a first, near as I know. Your articulation of each's merits has me wondering...
    I plan to experiment with a couple of UREI 535's at some point, but I am generally averse to excess of circuitry. It will be interesting to see what can be done to equalize the room.

    David

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    Dang. Amateur speakerdave's Avatar
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    One thing I've realized about these 4333A's, with their "biamp" option, is that they will be a very convenient, and by appearance inoffensive, test bed for various combinations of things I have been wanting to try. The switch removes most of the crossover circuitry from the woofer side but leaves the compensation and division for the mids and HF in place, so as far as the mids and HF are concerned it is a "biwire" option.

    I can turn the cabinets onto their tops and carefully set mockups of various mid bass, mid and HF combinations on top of their bottoms, using the 4333A woofer as the LF driver. I can biamp with a 5235 and various cards and make passives for the upper drivers. I will be able to try a modified, one-woofer 4350, a 4344, an S-22-1, etc. The first thing I want to test is a three way with a 511E/288-16G midrange and 077 or 2404 HF with the 2225's I now have in the cabinets.

    I've been looking at the schematic of the the 3133A, trying to understand the effects of what will still be in place connected to the woofer with the switch in Biamp. As I see it everything is taken out of the loop except a 20mF capacitor and a 10 ohm resistor in series across the woofer. Am I correct in thinking that the capacitor is meant to balance the inductive reactance of the woofer coil and the resistor is meant to smooth the impedance curve of the woofer? And that there is no response tailoring in these elements?

    Thanks,

    David

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    Yes, it counters the inductive reactance of the 2231 coil. That 20 uF / 10 ohm conjugate (Zobel) circuit ensures that the impedance doesn't rise above ~ 10 ohms as frequency increases. There is response tailoring with respect to the low pass filter function. In other words, the low pass poles are "looking" for an approximate 7 to 10 ohm load in order to function as designed. A "tighter" conjugate could have been used but it would have cost more (larger capacitor) and it might not have given the desired response curve.

    When biamped at 800Hz the effect will be negligible since the low pass would then be active.

  9. #9
    Dang. Amateur speakerdave's Avatar
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    Thanks, Giskard.

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    Sure.

    Anyone with L300's or 4333's feel up to trying out the AudioCap Theta bypass capacitors?

    The last pair of L300's I did belonged to Otis (Denver Broncos) Armstrong and I used the JBL metallized polypropylenes that were available at the time.

  11. #11
    Dang. Amateur speakerdave's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Giskard
    Anyone with L300's or 4333's feel up to trying out the AudioCap Theta bypass capacitors?
    Yeah, I think that would be a worthwhile experiment after I've had a chance to get a fix on the stock sound. I decided on the way home from work today I want to get those 2231's in right away so I can find out what I've got here.

    David

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    Senior Member Audiobeer's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Giskard
    Sure.

    Anyone with L300's or 4333's feel up to trying out the AudioCap Theta bypass capacitors?

    The last pair of L300's I did belonged to Otis (Denver Broncos) Armstrong and I used the JBL metallized polypropylenes that were available at the time.
    Hello! I'm up for that? How Much Dr. G?

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    The Polystyrene & Tin Foil 5% (RT) can be had from Michael Percy Audio and they run $2.75 each

    The Polypropylene & Tin Foil AudioCap can be had from Parts Express and they run $3.02 each because you will need twelve to do one pair of L300's or non-biamped 4333's and fourteen to do one pair of bi-amped 4333's.

  14. #14
    Senior Member Audiobeer's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Giskard
    The Polystyrene & Tin Foil 5% (RT) can be had from Michael Percy Audio and they run $2.75 each

    The Polypropylene & Tin Foil AudioCap can be had from Parts Express and they run $3.02 each because you will need twelve to do one pair of L300's or non-biamped 4333's and fourteen to do one pair of bi-amped 4333's.
    Any Preference one over the other? I was going to sell my pair but I decided against it just to piss off the wife. Any particular part number for the L-300 mid diaghrams and who to order from. Should I do the tweeters also? Sorry to wear you out my friend!
    Last edited by Audiobeer; 10-06-2004 at 07:23 PM.

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    Senior Seņor boputnam's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Audiobeer
    I was going to sell my pair but I decided against it just to piss off the wife.
    Group hug!! We are all there, dood!

    Except my wiefy has taken quite a cotton to the 4345's - so-much so, she threatens to take her ONE if I ever wander...
    bo

    "Indeed, not!!"

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