Headphones anyone ?

[Akira]

I read the promotes for the QC15, and today trialed them at DEN. Impressive enough that I bought a pair

So Bo can you provide a review of the QC15's after you've had some time with them. I have been reading reviews about them as I was thinking about picking up a pair. I have also heard that you can EQ their response (?) If true that would certainly change things. I found the QC2's pleasing to listen to but, not good for accurate monitoring. I ordered Sennheiser's top model (PXC450) over two months ago and only got notice yesterday that Dell has finally shipped them. I will write a review on them once I have properly tried them out.

p.s. the reason I stuck with the Senns is because in a head to head test with their cheaper model PXC350 they blew away the QC3's.
Test Gear: Newmann Binaural stereo microphone and Korg MR1000 high resolution recorder you can hear the results here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQdbcDTiIas

[Akira]

Okay, after the longest wait I finally received delivery.

Initial reaction...HIGHLY DISAPPOINTING.

The noise reduction is good for continuous hum but, poor to non existent for random noises. The unit does have natural sound blocking abilities being a closed (circumaural) design as it seals the ears well. When used outdoors the unit is susceptible to wind noise. I don't know if all NC units have the same problem as they employ external microphones. Yes you can hear very low level hiss--reported in every NC unit on the market.
Build quality is very good and the unit is very comfortable and looks great -- 9/10 on all three counts.
I also like the short cable (for working) but for pro use, any unit with a mini stereo jack HAS TO HAVE A LOCKING FEATURE. This unit does not.
I found these headphones very efficient, a surprise as that was one of the knocks against them. Perhaps I am use to inefficient pro units which require proper amplification.

AUDIO QUALITY: Here is where I give this product a poor grade --C minus.

First off being a circumaural design there is a natural lack of "air and spaciousness" to the sound. That much I expected. However, most disappointing is the lack of detail revealed in recordings. Sound is muffled as if a blanket were over top. All of the subtleties are missing. Part of the problem is a hump in the response around 180Hz which has a masking effect on higher frequencies. Play back on a John Mayer track, 'Your Body Is a Wonderland' the snare looses all of it's snap and sounds contained and boxy. The kick drum has a big low end thump and not the true body and texture that was originally recorded, especially on the attack--the beater hitting the skin. The vocal is closed and contained as opposed to open and breathy. Acoustic guitars have really high harmonics which are missing--again the quality of 'air' and 'space'.

I let a lay person try them out and they thought they sounded great. But to an educated ear the short comings are obvious. I find the faults glaring, especially when I listen back to my own work which of course I know intimately.
Perhaps I am being overly critical as I used my studio monitor series phones (AKG K240df) as a comparison. The AKG's I'm sure are not the best when compared to the highest end of the market, but they are EXTREMELY revealing in detail--one of the best for critical if not analytical monitoring.

WHAT TO DO??? I suppose I should audition them side by side with some Bose QC15's. I can return the Senn's and I am tempted to immediately, but I want to see if the Bose are any better. BO...I could really use a report!

[Akira]

The first thing that you notice about Bose's latest entry (Quiet Comfort 15) is that the second you put them on your head, you are in another world. Unlike the the Sennheisers the sense of isolation is immediate. Bose has added internal mics in their quest for improved noise cancellation. At almost half the size the fit is snug and yet comfortable; the natural circumaural seal is tight, again better than the Senns.
While the QC15's are also susceptible to wind noise they are a lot less so. The added negative white noise is however, more noticeable in the Bose.
The second thing you notice is the detachable cable. This is the cheapest flimsiest piece of manufactured garbage I have ever seen on ANY headset in my entire life...and WTF, no standard 1/4" adapter --Bose 3 Sennheiser 2

Looks, comfort and build Quality: While many people, especially travelers prefer the much smaller Bose, I favor the substantial, rich and quality look and feel of the Sennheisers which also have superior build quality.-- slight edge Sennheiser.

AUDIO QUALITY--the big one.
As much as I hate the exaggerated low end response of the Bose, (kiss of death for mixing) I have to say the overall sound is better. These headphones have dynamic punch and are much better in the critical midrange. There is detail in the recordings and even a bit of air and space. If the bass were not so ridiculously out of whack I would say the sound is very good--excellent for this type of design. While not quite voiced 'forward' the vocals remain in the forefront and the snare has that pop in it. They do not sound like they have a blanket over the mix. I also listened to the Sennheisers with the NC switched out and I found the balance the most neutral of the two in this configuration. With a sunken middle the frequency interference induced in these headphones resulted in a lack of distinction; this was not the case with the circuit out. While not as aurally stimulating as the Bose, I would have kept them if they sounded like this all the time because I am after the most neutral response I can get--not necessarily the best sounding product.
(For test comparisons I used a track bye Jo Dee Mesina called; Bye, Bye'
This is my test track I always play when setting up my monitors)

I am still not totally happy with the Bose QC15's but, after an exhaustive search I will be keeping them and returning the Senns. I really wanted to like the Sennheisers better...My wife says she will be posting a notice on the internet--Akira uses BOSE.

p.s. a word of caution. If I did not need these right away, I would have put off the purchase till a much future date. Noise canceling headphones are currently in that 'cycle' where a product is relatively new to the market and every manufacturer is jumping on the bandwagon. I expect these products to see a lot of improvement in the future as evidenced by the QC15's. Perhaps the biggest improvement we will see is the ability to cancel out random sounds which they all do rather poorly.

[4313B]

Unless you derive some sick pleasure from jogging with a pair of giant cans bolted to your head, earbuds are the way to go.

Giz Explains: Why You Can't Get Decent Earphones for Less Than $100

[boputnam]

Unless you derive some sick pleasure from jogging with a pair of giant cans bolted to your head, earbuds are the way to go.

That's a great Link - thanks. I've found the triple flange to be the best all around fit - it gives a really good seal.

And, to Akira - I've been too dang busy to get the testing done. I plan to, but things like this 3-day Hardly Strictly festival in Golden Gate Park keep getting priority...

Top = Banjo Stage, from the air
Middle = Banjo Stage, audience from FOH position
Bottom = Rooster Stage, audience from Monitorworld

[SEAWOLF97]

http://gizmodo.com/5033455/ultimate-...one-battlemodo

[Akira]

And, to Akira - I've been too dang busy to get the testing done. I plan to, but things like this 3-day Hardly Strictly festival in Golden Gate Park keep getting priority...

Looks like a great gig.
Don't worry about the testing, just wanted to know your opinions on the QC15's before I bought them....I bought them anyway. But, if you care to comment--by all means.

[boputnam]

OK, here goes.

Methodology: After a number of failed attempts, I settled upon the likely flawed "consumer" level, and friendly method. Since not all headphones would seal around the Earthworks M30 tightly alone, I wore the suckers, and stuck the Earthworks into the small groove of my RH ear's antitragus.

Each measurement used Pink Noise and comprises two screen-shots: a gain-balanced RTA and a Magnitude (Transfer Function) trace.

The RTA gains are matched - Pink Noise (reference) in Blue; Measurement in Green. Areas where the Blue can be seen represent areas the headphone response is deficient. Areas where the Green obscures the Blue are areas the headphone response matches or exceeds the reference signal gain.

The Magnitude trace is collected after time-aligning the reference and measurement signals. The Yellow trace is the difference between the two signals. Humps above 0dB are areas of the frequency response where the headphones are producing more of that frequency then they were given; valleys represent areas where the headphones produce less than they were given. Note the Red trace - this is coherence. Areas with low coherence that are coincident with "valleys" indicates this portion of the Yellow trace is spurious - an anomaly introduced by the environment and which cannot be remedied with EQ. Other humps and valleys of high coherence can be remedied with EQ.

First up:

Sony MDR-V6, my field cans...

[boputnam]

Here is the Sony MDR-SA5000, my studio cans...

Two obvious and extreme points of low coherence at 8kHz and approx. 12kHz. This must relate to mic positioning / reflections.

[boputnam]

Here is the Bose QC2

[boputnam]

And lastly (for me...), the QC15

[boputnam]

Observations:

There is not a meaningful difference in the QC2 vs QC15 by this method - that being in a noise-free environment where the NC was not benefitting the user. There is a slightly smoother response in the 1kHz to 6kHz by the QC15, but the lower range of their responses is nearly identical.

I have above reported that use of the the QC15 allowed using much lower output gain on my mp3 device. I tried to quantify this but failed - it did not show in the ear-tight results. However, it did show in my early trials where I tried to keep the ear shells closed together (no head involved), and in those instances Smaart showed a ±9dB difference between the two, with the QC15 the louder. Therefore, this difference must relate to instances where the increased effectiveness of the "new" NC algorithm does matter.

I again travelled with the QC15 this week, and it provides a remarkably isolated environment.

To Akira's frustration that a mini-plug to 1/4-in plug adapter is no longer provided, the rep at DEN gave me one on asking, and told me their research indicated something far less that 5% of buyers used it, so they dropped it from the product offering. Everyone is using these with mobile devices, all of which have (only?) a mini-jack. I admit I've only used mine a few times, but my world is odder than the norm...

[Mr. Widget]

Here is the Sony MDR-SA5000, my studio cans...

Two obvious and extreme points of low coherence at 8kHz and approx. 12kHz. This must relate to mic positioning / reflections.

I think the problem was with the "dummy" head you were using.

If you ever feel up to doing this bit again, I'd be curious as to how my Sennheiser HD-600s compare.


Widget

[Akira]

My impressions were subjective as I never used any test gear.
I must say the graphs look a lot better than anything my ears hear...but, them I'm probably deaf. Regardless of any data, IMO the QC15's are much too bass heavy for actual mix applications....but, I don't mind it for casual music playback. You never want to hear an over exaggeration of low end when recording. Something I'll just have to learn to compensate for.

I did get a chance to try them out on a high SPL situation last night--my first FOH gig in 8 years... An old Martin horn system--now I remember why I always hated those things. When I showed up I had to think what to do next--oh yeah--establish power. The QC15's were able to isolate the solo function at mix position which was a good 110-115db-- life in a club.
p.s. nice scenery, but you know your old when your staring at ALL 200 girls who could be your daughter. Of course back in the day, THEY USED TO STARE BACK!

[boputnam]

I think the problem was with the "dummy" head you were using.

No kidding! My thoughts exactly...

If you ever feel up to doing this bit again, I'd be curious as to how my Sennheiser HD-600s compare.

Sure - it's pretty easy to set-up. I seem to always have my head nearby somewhere and Smaart is never too far away...

IMO the QC15's are much too bass heavy for actual mix applications....

Agree. I suspect that emphasis is needed to compensate for the high energy levels in that frequency range that typify "transportation noise".

I did get a chance to try them out on a high SPL situation last night--my first FOH gig in 8 years...

I have tried the QC2 a few times - they work pretty well, but when it gets loud, they are less useful. I have not tried the QC15's but guess they would be better.

p.s. nice scenery, but you know your old when your staring at ALL 200 girls who could be your daughter. Of course back in the day, THEY USED TO STARE BACK!

Ah, the benefits of being an old soundguy. My daughter and her mates come around to quite a few of my local shows - they enjoy the great "seats" at FOH, but prefer being on the rail.