I going to build some 2397 from bubinga. I'll practice on some MDF before I hit the hardwood and have a question on the lip of the horn. The original JBL lip is rounded. Widgets had a little more taper but still rounded. What difference would be created from having a sharper edge like a Westlakes? Should I just try to duplicate Widgets, as I know they are tried and tested?
I think the shape of the lips is simply to achieve exponential growth in horn area.
A large mouth area is needed at low frequencies, to minimize reflections.
A narrow slot will improve diffraction, but You don't need much in the vertical plane.
I think JBL even recommends to add a kind of baffle.
Ruediger
Widget's were an exact copy of a pair of "factory" 2397s I have... of course I did add an additional flat extension as suggested in the JBL data sheet.Originally Posted by Wardsweb
As for the differences between the 2397 and the "Westlake" horn, based on the original Westlake horn that I borrowed and the original 2397s I have, the actual dimensions of the two horns and vane spacing is different between the two horns. Sonically listening to one or the other I didn't notice much of a difference, but the aesthetics of the Westlake is pretty hard not to like. The picture you posted is some sort of hybrid. The real Westlake horns and every clone I have made have a very sharp edge at the front lip. The chamfer at the front is close to but not exactly 45°.
Widget
Yes your Westlake are pure art and beauty. From what I can tell, these are DIY Smith horns that someone cut a beveled edge into. I just didn't know if it made any real difference or if it was a personal taste kind of thing. You know me, esthetics are very important.Widget's were an exact copy of a pair of "factory" 2397s I have... of course I did add an additional flat extension as suggested in the JBL data sheet.
As for the differences between the 2397 and the "Westlake" horn, based on the original Westlake horn that I borrowed and the original 2397s I have, the actual dimensions of the two horns and vane spacing is different between the two horns. Sonically listening to one or the other I didn't notice much of a difference, but the aesthetics of the Westlake is pretty hard not to like. The picture you posted is some sort of hybrid. The real Westlake horns and every clone I have made have a very sharp edge at the front lip. The chamfer at the front is close to but not exactly 45°.
Widget
I am currently working on producing repros and the only thing I have slightly changed from the original design is the progression after the fins. I have tried to keep a continuous "expansion" rate instead of the flatter one. My understanding is that when the 2397 was produced, they didn't have the technology to make a nice curve toward the mouth. They didn't have CNC back then.. I am putting a 14" radius that starts right where the fins ends instead of just rounding of near the mouth. Looking at progression curves, it makes way more sense. Just my 2 cents.
As far as the Westlake horns look, I can't do but concure that they look likess.
Are you still on track for a early summer release for distribution?I am currently working on producing repros and the only thing I have slightly changed from the original design is the progression after the fins. I have tried to keep a continuous "expansion" rate instead of the flatter one. My understanding is that when the 2397 was produced, they didn't have the technology to make a nice curve toward the mouth. They didn't have CNC back then.. I am putting a 14" radius that starts right where the fins ends instead of just rounding of near the mouth. Looking at progression curves, it makes way more sense. Just my 2 cents.
As far as the Westlake horns look, I can't do but concure that they look like
Yes, I expect to be on time, and even possibly early. Production is only 3 weeks but I am currently over my head with my core business. But hey, the goal is to be accurate, sexy and and above all: cheap. I will also be able to compare with a set of 2350 and Emilar 500.
BTW Can an expert explain why each center path is 22 degrees apart, but the ones on each end are 21 degrees? There must be a reason, but it makes no sense. I made them all at 22 degrees.
I not sure if your aware that when Widget cloned the westlake's, he was borrowed a early example of the large westlake horn for reference. Westlake's current large wooden horn as found in the SM-1 is a bit different.
Be sure to measure the altered horn before you produce too many of them.
AFAIK the parallell top and bottom of the Smith horn is there for a reason - vertical dispersion if I'm not mistaken.
Johnny Haugen Sørgård
Yep... I am not sure of all of the changes that Westlake made, but the two I do know are that the height of the horn got taller and they did away with the JBL 2328 throat. I imagine that these two changes are related. I wouldn't be so sure that the change was for improved sonics as much as the cost of manufacture though it may have made an improvement in the narrow range Westlake asks their large horn to cover.I not sure if your aware that when Widget cloned the westlake's, he was borrowed a early example of the large westlake horn for reference. Westlake's current large wooden horn as found in the SM-1 is a bit different.
I'd proceed very cautiously in making any changes. Every "modification" I made over these tried and true designs produced inferior results. Another thing to consider... the majority of horns out there sound like... well, like horns. If you like that, great, but most of us have gravitated towards the 2397 or Westlake horns because of this lack of coloration.
Widget
Widget, with the experience you now have regarding the array1400, S9900 and D66000, do you still find the smith horn superior to the biradials? (when used with a supertweeter)
Don't worry. First batch is only 16 units (or 8 sets). Top and bottom indeed remain parallel to each other. Only the progression at the mouth will change.
I am just back from the CNC wood shop. Wood of the first batch will be 3/4" High Density Fiber. Fins are still aluminum. Kit to be stained, varnished and assembled at home. Timeline for the first pictures is 3 weeks from now. I will probably lend a set or two for those wanting to take audio measurements.
The 1400 Arrays are in my living room playing as I type this. My 2397s and my beautiful Westlake clones are tidily packed away in my attic.
Only
That is about how many I produced in total. I actually never counted but I certainly made less than 10 sets. But then I spent weeks just selecting the wood. For those who haven't guessed, I am very picky.
Widget
Atticthat seems like such a waste. At least, I've got pictures of them to motivate me on building mine.
With automated CNC production, making a pair or making 8 sets would amost be the same cost. So why not share..
I visited the CNC wood shop and we agreed on a production operation to achieve a nice curve near the throat. I saw some exemples that required minimal hand sanding to smoothen the stepped process. Just waiting for a cost estimate to actually start production. I saw your draft, as well as a French draft. There were some small discrepencies at the throat width. Not much. I just used both drafts, and made them more "logical" (equal 22° between each pathway, and a constant geometrical progression, not flatted after the "fins"). I make no claim as being the most this, or the uber that. I am just experimenting with a production process while having fun.
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