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Thread: Anything bad to say against Mackenzie recone kits?

  1. #136
    Senior Member ivica's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruediger View Post
    From their homepage:

    McKenzie guarantees all its replacement kits to be accurate to the original manufacturers’ specifications and come with full replacement warranty.

    They should specify the TS params and a few others with tolerances (+/-), as well as SPL and impedance vs. freuency.

    Ruediger
    Hi,

    If talking about JBL 2202 recone, I have to confirm that their kit is fare, fare, fare ...,away from JBL , looking at tha cone, and the measurements confirm that.

    Regards ivica

  2. #137
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    Losing Games and Other Time Vampires

    You know what? A LOT has changed these past 5 years!

    It really doesn't make a sh&t

    You can't get the vast majority of the kits one might need from JBL, for JBL transducers anymore and it's only going to get worse until it's not at all; we all know that....................so it is irrelevant

    GAMES OVER!

    I mean it's like, if you had TWO to choose between or if it were a two choice proposition (both readily available) and it was a budgetary matter I MAYBE could see it...................but with today's reality?

    Unless you've got a month to scrounge around for some of them and then pay more for it than the driver cost new................what's the choice other than use the best of what's out there?

    The only thing that bothers me sometimes about MacKenzie, or is it McKenzie is just that, look CLOSELY:
    http://reconekits.com/about-us.aspx

    Quality of construction, yes and I will always prefer a JBL genuine part simply because it USED to be a known quantity.

    But I will also point this out, I have two 123A-3s only a few hundred digits apart and the two FACTORY cones appear entirely different as for texture/appearance (and some other minute details) and I would bet my left nut that one is going to weigh easily more than the other, possibly by as much as >5% (the adhesive dispenser was obviously functioning differently between the two as well)

    I can SEE with the unaided eye that the Aquaplas on one is substantially thicker than the other, and I mean by no small margin; if I had been buying these back in '75 I would have asked to see another box, that's how obvious it is. Not ugly, the woofers look new, just look as if they were from two different factories, suppliers or production runs is all.....................

    These woofers are unmolested originals

    Yeah, in a perfect world you want it to be what the technical sheet says it should be (better that, what the engineer who designed the driver says it should be)

    Best that could ever be had over run after run was pretty close

    It's not worth worrying too much today about something you can't do a damn thing about

    And back to the original question posed 5 years ago, no, I have nothing bad to say about MacKenzie speaker parts; everyone I have used was of good quality.

    As good (well built/over built) as original JBL parts used to be? No, unless they have improved, I have not used any in 4 or 5 years

  3. #138
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    I wonder what the ratio of reform to recones is?

    I mean foam rot is a much easier fix and the surround has much less impact on the T/L than the spider.

    Reforms were once cursed but for those instances it might be better way to go.

    I had an original 2245 re foamed by a pro speaker repairer who re builds drivers (not a hack) and he said the original cone was fine.

    I think it's smart to talk to the trad people who are experienced in the actual repair work about what your driver needs as opposed to ripping out an original cone that only needs a refoam.

    I understand that VC can also be replaced on an original cone by a skilled technician.

    Whether this spies to all drivers requires clarity.

    I think it pays to listen to Edgewound before you jump.

    Let the repair guy fix your driver.

  4. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Mackenzie View Post
    I wonder what the ratio of reform to recones is?

    I mean foam rot is a much easier fix and the surround has much less impact on the T/L than the spider.

    Reforms were once cursed but for those instances it might be better way to go.

    I had an original 2245 re foamed by a pro speaker repairer who re builds drivers (not a hack) and he said the original cone was fine.

    I think it's smart to talk to the trad people who are experienced in the actual repair work about what your driver needs as opposed to ripping out an original cone that only needs a refoam.

    I understand that VC can also be replaced on an original cone by a skilled technician.

    Whether this spies to all drivers requires clarity.

    I think it pays to listen to Edgewound before you jump.

    Let the repair guy fix your driver.
    Agreed, having a vetted professional such as Edgewound perform repairs is more important today than ever and is money well spent, especially if maintaining/restoring as closely as possible the integrity of the original design is the penultimate goal

    That being said, if a re-cone kit is one's ONLY option, OR if a person is going to (insist) on doing this work themselves then it is truly a matter of "it is what it is"

    Your comments are true; someone who knows what they are doing can work wonders saving/restoring old parts from bits and pieces AND the quality of after market parts can vary wildly, voice coil quality being the most critical variable..............my remarks apply to the specifics of a case- by-case basis only

  5. #140
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    Its a bit like putting on new car tires yourself.

    No one in their right mind does it (i hope).

    However, many years ago I took a GF on a road trip in a work car and both rear tires blow within 50 km of each other 400 miles from home.

    Yep the low down scumbag boss put re treads on. Total looser!

    I must say I have had better luck with new hire cars in the USA, not one freakin issue down the Mississippi and did not hit any natives neither.

    (If you are so inclined http://www.doeseatplace.com/ does the best steaks on the planet! there's only one size 2 lbs!)

    Assuming its only a foam surround what is $150 bucks to have it done by a pro over a 5 year life span?

    I had a dud 2214 from E bay that had a locked pole.

    Boy was I pissed.

    I took it to my regular guy and he said it would need to be re built and the magnet re gaussed.

    $400 buck later ooch and it cost more then the dud 2214 but it will last for years to come.

  6. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Mackenzie View Post
    Its a bit like putting on new car tires yourself.

    No one in their right mind does it (i hope).
    I'd look for another analogy, unless you don't mind insulting truly professional journeyman speaker repairmen

    If you are capable of operating a mechanical can opener and possess a normal amount of physical strength, an IQ of at least 80 points and a back in reasonably decent working order you can mount and balance tyres and do so quite successfully

    We'd pull kids in off the street and make them tyre busters, takes about 30 minutes to confer upon them the basics

  7. #142
    Senior Member 1audiohack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wagner View Post
    You know what? A LOT has changed these past 5 years!

    It really doesn't make a sh&t

    You can't get the vast majority of the kits one might need from JBL, for JBL transducers anymore and it's only going to get worse until it's not at all; we all know that....................so it is irrelevant
    .
    .
    .


    Quality of construction, yes and I will always prefer a JBL genuine part simply because it USED to be a known quantity.

    But I will also point this out, I have two 123A-3s only a few hundred digits apart and the two FACTORY cones appear entirely different as for texture/appearance (and some other minute details) and I would bet my left nut that one is going to weigh easily more than the other, possibly by as much as >5% (the adhesive dispenser was obviously functioning differently between the two as well)

    I can SEE with the unaided eye that the Aquaplas on one is substantially thicker than the other, and I mean by no small margin; if I had been buying these back in '75 I would have asked to see another box, that's how obvious it is. Not ugly, the woofers look new, just look as if they were from two different factories, suppliers or production runs is all.......
    Well they are pretty much hand built.

    As for the JBL kit quality, it still seems fine to me. This month I have built four 2234's, eight 2220's and six 2121's. All kits made in 2015 or 2016, all coils consistant to 0.2 Ohm variations and the FS on the 2234's are spot on.

    On the foam front, the 2234's in the 4435's in my office were made in 06/1986 and one of the surrounds finally cracked last year. 30 years is pretty good service.

    Barry.
    If we knew what the hell we were doing, we wouldn't call it research would we.

  8. #143
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    Thomas your up posting when you should be asleep or a pita with your kin,

    I think you read things different to the norm.

    Criptic comes to mind.

    Have you heard of the spare in the trunk?
    Have you watched a tyre being changed?
    Have you watched a pro reconer strip out a cone?

    No you haven't fuck nut have you.

    The process is in many ways identical to changing a tyre.

    The skill is in finding the leak(s) and determing the correct approach to repairing or replacing the tyre.


    The process is messy, it's awkward and l sincerely doubt you would get it right as there are all sorts of tricks to the trade in getting it done correctly.

    Please do us all a favour and Don't disagree with Big People because you think you can!

    You remind me of a 4 year old sometimes. Ask permission first and be polite.

  9. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Mackenzie View Post
    Thomas your up posting when you should be asleep or a pita with your kin,

    I think you read things different to the norm.

    Criptic comes to mind.

    Have you heard of the spare in the trunk?
    Have you watched a tyre being changed?
    Have you watched a pro reconer strip out a cone?

    No you haven't fuck nut have you.

    The process is in many ways identical to changing a tyre.

    The skill is in finding the leak(s) and determing the correct approach to repairing or replacing the tyre.


    The process is messy, it's awkward and l sincerely doubt you would get it right as there are all sorts of tricks to the trade in getting it done correctly.

    Please do us all a favour and Don't disagree with Big People because you think you can!

    You remind me of a 4 year old sometimes. Ask permission first and be polite.
    No need for the profanity and degenerate "jokes" (innuendo) It's bad form

    I also fear it just may be you who is reading "cryptic" meanings into otherwise benign posts, opinions and comments

    You know absolutely nothing about me friend, so knock it off with the arrogance (and the weird ass PMs as well) I would ask you to please refrain

    "Process" being identical "in many ways" isn't what you initially said, the first mention of it was what I was speaking to, not whatever random mess that's rattling around in your head now with this glorious tirade and adventure in name calling:
    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Mackenzie View Post
    Its a bit like putting on new car tires yourself.
    No one in their right mind does it (i hope).
    However, many years ago I took a GF on a road trip in a work car and both rear tires blow within 50 km of each other 400 miles from home.
    Yep the low down scumbag boss put re treads on. Total looser!


    "Have you heard of the spare in the trunk?" - Yes, both the "space saver" emergency and full size road wheel types, very familiar with both (I was there when the "space saver" "emergency/temporary" types were born)

    "Have you watched a tyre being changed?" - Yes, many many times as well as having changed hundreds, maybe even thousands myself in my working lifetime

    "Have you watched a pro reconer strip out a cone?" - Yes, on more than a few occasions as well as having done more than a few dozen dozens of them myself successfully, for me and for others

    That is how I absolutely know for a fact that there is no similarities between the two "skills", "hands on" except for the fact that both involve round, compromised objects (and maybe some glue, but even that's a stretch)

    As for this?:
    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Mackenzie View Post
    The skill is in finding the leak(s) and determing the correct approach to repairing or replacing the tyre.
    Don't know how much real "skill" is required to pull a road wheel and tyre assembly off a vehicle and dunk it in a leak check tub, that or spray it while it's still on the car with a little soapy water: like I said, bit of an insult to the speaker repair tradesmen

    This is the only tool they absolutely need if nothing else (tyre busters), this, at least one working eyeball and wear bars, the spray bottle may be employed by the advanced, self-assured and cocky "uptown" guys. And of course some patches or plugs and the appropriate glue to effect the indicated repair:



    Wound diagnostics, now that's for the advanced tyre "tech" and will require at least another 30 minutes of advanced training; one would need to recommend replacement for this example or any wound to the sidewall for that matter. Tough stuff to master:



    That is why I cannot appreciate your analogy and said what I said, sorry "Ian", it wasn't an attack on you personally and you are incorrect in your thinking to take it as such

    I was and am an Master Automobile Technician (certified, you can look it up on-line as well as all of my manufacturer specific credentials and my Kalifornia Smog Test and Repair License): for 40 plus years

    Busting tyres doesn't have a thing in common with re-coning a speaker, other than some speakers are round like road wheels and a "lazy Susan" of sorts may be involved depending on your tyre machine

    That, and both operations involve the removal of a spent bit and it's replacement with a new bit; that's about where the similarities end

    Then again, from the sound of it, maybe you'd take your shoes to the cobbler for new laces, eh?

    Your analogy is an exceedingly poor one as for the implication of the skills required and need of a "professional" for one as compared to the other: speakers, yes, tyres not so much

    Why, I think that I could teach even you to bust tyres successfully, in a matter of minutes, right after I show you how to avail yourself of the benefits and operation of "spell check"

    And yes, it is often difficult to understand your weird ass English and what attempts to be sentence structure and grammar so forgive me if I have a difficult time following along with your insults and all knowing perspectives

    If you interpret my posts with the same degree of lack of clarity as I have struggled with in deciphering some of yours, then it is no small wonder why you are having such a problem with my meaning. I know I have had quite the difficult time understanding some of yours.

    My apologies for this unfortunate misunderstanding and set of circumstances

    As I wrote; if you can operate a mechanical can opener and have an IQ of at least 80 points, I can teach you how to use a tyre machine (well) in about 30 minutes

    Not so certain, in fact I know I cannot say the same as for all of the nuances, idiosyncrasies and techniques required to successfully and professionally repair and service many of the transducers we deal with, and love, everyday (which at times can come close to being an art form)

    To compare that skill set to tyre busting is an insult

  10. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Mackenzie View Post
    I had a dud 2214 from E bay that had a locked pole.

    Boy was I pissed.

    I took it to my regular guy and he said it would need to be re built and the magnet re gaussed.

    $400 buck later ooch and it cost more then the dud 2214 but it will last for years to come.
    Ian, was the problem a shifted magnet, pole plate, or center pole piece, or a bad voice coil. I've got a similar 2214H locked up (bought that way) and will need to get it looked at, likely I'll be calling Ken.
    When faced with another JBL find, Good mech986 says , JBL Fan mech986 says

  11. #146
    Senior Member Eaulive's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 300_Summit View Post
    How do they compare to the JBL kits?
    Yes Lee, how do they compare... did you had the chance to hear them both?

    It would have been nice to take pictures and measurements (mechanical that is) of the cone before installing :-)
    My avatar: 4520 loaded with 2225H on E140 frames,
    1x 2202H on custom front loaded horn, 2x 2426 on 2370.

  12. #147
    Senior Member Lee in Montreal's Avatar
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    I started that thread 5 and half years ago. Now, allow me to continue the discussion with a "comparative test" I found on the internet. This is only one source. Maybe somebody has another. BTW My McKenzie recones are 5 years old and still keep on pumping some great bass. ;-)

    BTW I have some 2226 Mckenzie recones and for 25% the price of the JBL unit, I get 95% of the quality. As my system is active, if I lose a tiny bit of sound output, I don't mind too much as I only have to raise the attenuators on the amps, or increase output on the digital crossover.

    http://diygeezer.com/aftermarket-recone-kit-review/

    Lee

  13. #148
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    Great stuff. It's interesting how a very significant difference in the impedance plot doesn't correlate to the frequency response curve.

  14. #149
    Senior Member Ed Zeppeli's Avatar
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    Thanks Lee. Interesting article and comments section too.


    Warren
    DIY Array, 2242 sub, 4408, 4208, Control 8SR, E120 Guitar cab, Control 1, LSR305.

  15. #150
    Senior Member Lee in Montreal's Avatar
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    I have been on the idle for my next purchase at McKenzie for some 2245 recone kits. I was waiting to find some technical comparaison and it seems that for most of us, they are "good enough". I have two empty baskets already cleaned up, and two more with JBL cones. And another in duty at the moment.

    I want to ditch the 2226 in my two system and replace them with a pair of 2245, well understanding the limitations of the 2245 heavy cone beyond 300Hz

    http://reconekits.com/jbl2245h8ohmreconekit.aspx

    Lee

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