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Thread: Anything bad to say against Mackenzie recone kits?

  1. #1
    Senior Member Lee in Montreal's Avatar
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    Anything bad to say against Mackenzie recone kits?

    Except, of course, that they are not original JBL.

    Considering that 2240 baskets can be had for under $50 and that a pre-assembled 2245h recone kit is $80.00, I think it becomes a no brainer for bass heads.

    http://reconekits.com/jbl2245h8ohmreconekit.aspx

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    Senior Member pos's Avatar
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    please install one and measure the T/S !

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    Senior Member Lee in Montreal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pos View Post
    please install one and measure the T/S !
    Do you have any previous experience with this aftermarket recone kit in particular?

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    Senior Member Eaulive's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lee in Montreal View Post
    Do you have any previous experience with this aftermarket recone kit in particular?
    I don't but please do some tests for the benefit of us all!

    Did you buy one yet?

  5. #5
    Senior Member pos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lee in Montreal View Post
    Do you have any previous experience with this aftermarket recone kit in particular?
    I don't either, but here is couple of things you should check:
    the voice coil must be 24mm long (vs 19mm for the 2240), edgewound copper ribbon, and the cone must have aquaplass on its back (mms 185g vs 164g for the 2240).

    The fact that their 2245 kit is more expensive than their 2240 one is encouraging!

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    Senior Member Lee in Montreal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pos View Post
    and the cone must have aquaplass on its back (mms 185g vs 164g for the 2240).
    Interestingly, I don't think that all JBL-sourced 2245 kits even had the white aquaplas on the back. I have noticed some discripencies on many pictures. But I might be wrong.

  7. #7
    Senior Member pos's Avatar
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    aquaplas can be either white or black (eg 128H vs 128H-1), but is present on the back of all proper 2245s

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    Senior Member Eaulive's Avatar
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    I emailed them today with questions about 2225 kits.
    Somewhere in their website they sell the same VC for 2225 and E140... not a good sign.

    Before starting to beyatch I'm gonna wait for what they have to say, they maybe have the best intentions and are willing to learn to provide the best product possible, who knows.

    Basically I don't doubt the craftmenship and dedication if those are US made kits made by serious people, I doubt the result/assembly and the exactitude of the specs.

    It's hard to get exact specs on the voice coil length, wire thickness, amount of turns, position of the coil in the gap, position of the spider on the coil former, etc. So it's possible that they're not exactly as spec.

    Like I said, let's see before saying the product is sh**. Altec lansing cones are now made by a third party (GPA) and people seems to be happy with them so the same thing could happen with JBL stuff.

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    Senior Member Lee in Montreal's Avatar
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    When a supplier such as JBL doesn't sell components for a while, and sells replacement parts at highway robbery price, I think the message is clear: bring your business elsewhere. Therefore, as Eaulive mentionned, I think it is the enthusiasts' best interest to support local aftermarket suppliers into improving their product. "Supporting" could include working with them into making better recone kits. If it allows a couple American workers to get a job, I am all for it...

    Perhaps I can even invite the dudes from Mackenzie to this discussion. Afterall, aftermarket suppliers are not neccessarely the ennemy.

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    Senior Member edgewound's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lee in Montreal View Post
    When a supplier such as JBL doesn't sell components for a while, and sells replacement parts at highway robbery price, I think the message is clear: bring your business elsewhere. Therefore, as Eaulive mentionned, I think it is the enthusiasts' best interest to support local aftermarket suppliers into improving their product. "Supporting" could include working with them into making better recone kits. If it allows a couple American workers to get a job, I am all for it...

    Perhaps I can even invite the dudes from Mackenzie to this discussion. Afterall, aftermarket suppliers are not neccessarely the ennemy.
    The JBL OEM 2240 recone kit has aquaplas on about 1/3 of the rear of the cone up from the voice coil apex. 2245 has black aquaplas on the entire rear for the cone. Older 2245s had white aquaplas.

    The problem with aftermarket cone suppliers is honesty. You will not get JBL performance from aftermarket kits. If you're willing to understand and accept that the aftermarket kits are considerably inferior, that's your choice. Most JBL fans want JBL performance and longevity.

    VGC aftermarket kits are not worth the money. The voice coils are completely wrong and will burn up.

    Caveat Emptor in the aftermarket. I've seen too many lies on incorrect repairs. If they're honest, no problem...you been disclosed.

    Notice any obvious differences from the aftermarket pictured a few posts up? Aquaplas? Voice coil?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eaulive View Post
    .
    .
    Like I said, let's see before saying the product is sh**. Altec lansing cones are now made by a third party (GPA) and people seems to be happy with them so the same thing could happen with JBL stuff.
    The man that own GPA(Great Plains Audio) was a former Altec engineer. He bought the production equipment from the old Altec company. His equipment is about as close to real Altec as you will ever get.

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    Senior Member svollmer's Avatar
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    On top of the price difference between JBL and after-market recone kits, I thought another problem was that us "civilians" aren't pertmitted to purchase authentic JBL kits. They have to be sold along with the installation work by authorized repair shops.

    Is that correct?

  13. #13
    Senior Member Eaulive's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by edgewound View Post
    Notice any obvious differences from the aftermarket pictured a few posts up? Aquaplas? Voice coil?
    Obviously, voice coil length and lack of aquaplas, there maybe more.

    This is exacty what I'm referring to. If JBL specs could be available or properly measured so that the third parties could accurately reproduce them, I think it would be a bonus for everybody.

    Maybe not for you however, since your business is professional reconing.

    Just for fun, could you provide the VC length for 2225 and E140? Do you know about offsets and the details involved in making a cone/VC/spider assembly a genuine JBL cone?

    At the base it's only paper, copper and glue.

  14. #14
    Senior Member Lee in Montreal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eaulive View Post
    If JBL specs could be available or properly measured so that the third parties could accurately reproduce them, I think it would be a bonus for everybody
    JBL needs not to publish specs. Any manufacturer could reproduce an exact copy by simply spending $240 on an original recone kit, and spend some time measuring it and trying to reproduce the exact same specs. Spider and suspension flex, cone rigidity and weight, voice-coil, etc. Make a first copy. Test T/S. Modify if necessary. Damn, if humanity can send men on the moon and make zoophilic porn available to every single house in the world, how come copying such a simple part is so difficult?

    JBL drivers are not rocket science. They are industrialized mass-produced parts.

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    Senior Member 1audiohack's Avatar
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    I for one hope that a top shelf supplier arises to fill our needs.

    I do not expect JBL to help in any way other than making the decision to leave the legacey repair market open by failing to support it.

    If you have ever done any thorough speaker testing it becomes apparent that there are probably a hundred things that can go wrong in trying to knock off a cone kit exactly. Think about the paper science itself.

    If someone does it right, the success will not have come easily and don't be suprized that the cost may be even higher than the JBL kits.
    If we knew what the hell we were doing, we wouldn't call it research would we.

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