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Thread: Help on JBL Olympus S7R

  1. #1
    gorg
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    Help on JBL Olympus S7R

    Recently I obtained a pair of JBL Olympus C50 S7R Speakers. It sounds great on Jazz and Pop music. I am a classical music nut. Somehow I feel mid-frequency area from classic music which S7R produces is not as warm as it does for Pop music, some metal taste, “cold” and “hard” for most string performance movement. Friends (they are all professional musician from local symphony orchestra) came over and all agreed. I am posting a note here to seek helps. Could it be caused by the component LE85. If I replace LE85 with 375 plus add additional 075, another word, could the S8R represent a better sound for the mid-frequency area from classic music? I am confused as I did research on S7R and I really could find any complain for the quality of sound which S7R produces. The legendary JBL S7R is for Pop music and is just not good for classic music????? It will be hard to believe. I hope somebody could help me out. Thank you very much!

  2. #2
    RIP 2011 Zilch's Avatar
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    Upgrade

    "Cold," and "Warm" are very subjective when it comes to characterizing the sound, but, in my experience, going to 375 may be the wrong direction, since it's cone midrange drivers that are traditionally considered to provide "warm" sound.

    I'd add the 075's (and crossovers) first. It may just be the high end that's missing there. Perhaps this seems contradictory, but if the high overtones of the classical instruments are not faithfully reproduced, you'd perceive it as "cold." Does this make sense in the context of what you're hearing?

    Perhaps you attribute more credibility to the mighty Olympus, S7, and S8 than they deserve, as well. While their technology was formidable, they were never "ultimate," and certainly are not today....

    Are there any forum members who consider the 375 to be "warmer" than the LE85? Perhaps, we shall see....

    [HONK!!]
    Last edited by Zilch; 08-25-2004 at 09:57 PM.

  3. #3
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    Zilch, as someone very new to JBL, with the exception of owning 6 L100 s way back and a pr of Altec Mag VOT for 1 day, I'd love some of your insight into what is the best in house JBL/ Altec speaker in the heritage line excluding the Hartsfield and Paragon. I'm just trying to get the right direction quickly, realizing I need to hear different contenders. Size not an issue.
    Robin

  4. #4
    gorg
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    Thank you [HONK!!] for the inside. I did install a pair of 075 (8 ohms) and N7000 crossover earlier. It created a very high pitch for some music. It could be just because the compatibility issue (the LE15 and LE85 in the box are all 16 ohms). I will try to install 075 with 16 ohms and see.

  5. #5
    gorg
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    Thank you [HONK!!] for the inside. I did install a pair of 075 (8 ohms) and N7000 crossover earlier. It created a very high pitch for some music. It could be just because the compatibility issue (the LE15 and LE85 in the box are all 16 ohms). I will try to install 075 with 16 ohms and see.

  6. #6
    RIP 2011 Zilch's Avatar
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    Wrong guy, alas....

    Originally posted by rloggie
    I'd love some insight into what is the best in house JBL/ Altec speaker in the heritage line
    Looks like them Altecs you just got are purty nice!

    Bear in mind, it's ALL a matter of taste. I'm a plug 'n' play kinda user. I like the Biradials, the 4425, 4430, and 4435 best, though I don't consider them "Heritage." Others here with the skill to tune them seem to swear by the large-format 4-ways.

    Oddly, and folks are gonna laugh at me here, among the true Heritage stuff, the sweetest sounding setup I have, I don't even know what they are. C35, I think. Highboys. Blonde. Flatback. My "quiet" room. I never blast them.

    And here's the icing: I don't know what's IN them, either, LOL. 001 or 030, probably. [PLEASE don't make me look. It's a thousand screws to remove the backs....] [Edit: Well, it's potato mashers, not 075's, so 001, then.]

    SOOO, consensus, if any, is gonna have to come from other forum members. It's ALL good!
    Last edited by Zilch; 08-25-2004 at 10:53 PM.

  7. #7
    Dang. Amateur speakerdave's Avatar
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    Gorg:

    There are several possible explanations for your subjective hearing experience:

    1) What speakers have you liked? It may be that you simply need a more refined speaker than a two-way with a fifteen-inch woofer and a horn mid/tweeter thirty some years old.

    2) A question of balance. Zilch may be right. Response missing in one area will make another seem prominent. The lack of highs may make the midrange subjectively overdone.

    3) The same could apply to missing bass. The surrounds on those woofers may have gotten stiff and inflexible preventing the movement required to reproduce lower frequencies.

    4) The diaphragm in the LE85 may be worn out.

    5) The capacitors in the crossover a) may have aged into oblivion, b) may not have been very good in the first place. Also. a general upgrade and redesign of the crossover may be in order.

    6) You may be hearing the inherent sonic shortcomings of the horn.

    7) You may be hearing the fact that the woofer is beaming at the crossover frequency and that as a result the unevenness of response in the power field around that frequency causes a dip and a peak resulting in subjective harshness.

    8) Related to No. 7--be aware that in the history of the JBL large format monitor the next major development was a series of 4-way speakers that used a woofer, a smaller cone bass/mid which transitioned better to a mid-range horn and a slot tweeter, the top three units governed by a much more sophisticated crossover which helped create a very much smoother overall response.

    If you are interested in making this speaker work for you I would suggest you begin by making sure that it is really operating the way it was designed to operate, and then, based on your judgement of the realities and options, begin trying to improve it if you choose.

    Good luck,

    David
    Last edited by speakerdave; 08-26-2004 at 07:02 AM.

  8. #8
    jandregg
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    I don't have much experience with different models, but I have owned the s7r since 75, bought new. It sounds wonderful on much music, but not classical music that has very many instruments, especially horns. The problems seems to be in the 500 to 900 hz range. The louder the music the more noticable the distortion. When the horns start in on bolero you want to run. I used an electronic crossover at 800hz and that helped a lot with the distortion, but killed the liveliness. Last year with the help of this forum I added a 10 inch jbl from 350 to 1200 hz. Not very different on jazz but huge difference on clasical. Even pop sounds better. I hate to say it, but the s7r can even be bettered by the l100 on some clasical music. Love it anyhow and even more now with the 10 inch handling the lower midrange.

  9. #9
    paragon
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    Smile

    Try a 375 with a 2397 wood horn.
    You will have no "horn sound " with this !!

    Regards
    Eckhard

  10. #10
    gorg
    Guest
    Thank you David, your check points are very nice. I will check all of areas as you mentioned.

    Thank you Zilch too. I will try to add 075 to see if highs will make a difference.

    Jandregg, could you please share your method of adding a jbl 10”. It is an interesting thought. I hope the check list David mentioned will resolve the problem, (which include adding 075). Otherwise, adding a jbl 10” seems to be the only option I have left. Is that 10” has a crossover attached to the current crossover?

    Other people also mentioned to clean the connection within the box, I will try it too.

    Thank you everybody it is very educational.

  11. #11
    gorg
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    Paragon: thanks for your suggestion, too.

  12. #12
    JRL
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    Asking the obvious

    Hey, how come nobody has asked the obvious? What are you using for amplification and source material? First off, adding a 075 won't help what you're complaining about, and a 375 will just make the situation worse. Before you form too negative an opinion of the S7's, try tube amplification and play a few records on a good turntable/cartridge combination. You'll be in for a big surprise. At the very least, listen with a tube amp and a "warm" cd player (Rega Planars sound great, and are available very inexpensively). I have S7's and often switch back and forth between tube and ss systems. Big difference. Also, make sure that all the connections at the speaker and crossover terminals are nice and clean...don't forget how many decades they've been oxidizing.

  13. #13
    gorg
    Guest
    JRL: thanks for your negative on my negative. Actually, I want to hear negative on my wonderings. I have to admit that I am a new comer in the high end audio area but I have been seeking a high quality speaker system for a while. I have been researching Altec’s, Tannoy’s and of cause JBL’s. Recently, I purchased a pair of S7R.

    I have a double EL 34 (4 el34 in total) single end pure tube amplifier, which produced 9 watts per channel and the max power can go to 2 x 20 watts. I think it has enough power. I also tried MC 240. I am using AMC CD player. For the source, I have been using the top quality CDs, gold, dddd and hi-fi CDs.

    As I mentioned in my previous email, it produced a great sound for Jazz and Pop music. When it turns to classic music, I realize there must be something missing. I do not know what. Friends (they all are professional musician from local Symphony Orchestra) came and all agreed that somehow the midrange frequency is not represented naturally, “some metal taste”, “cold”, a little too “hard”. I know it is hard to describe because the personal preference is involved. Meanwhile everybody cannot deny that Olympus does produce a crystal clear sound. The base is right on the point and the layer of the sound is very clearly represented. It is certainly a definite positive feedback for those areas.

    I am a classic music nut. So far, I can not really feel good for the sound it produced for big Symphony piece such as Beethoven Symphony 7 in A major conducted by Carlos Kleiber. The sound for string movement is not really acceptable. If Kleiber heard that, probably he would kill me. How to resolve the midrange frequency myth?

    I will certainly clean all the connections at the speaker and crossover terminals. It is a very good suggestion. Thank you. I am sure there got be something I did to cause this. It will be very hard for me to believe that the mighty S7R is only good for Pop music but not for classic music. Thank you again. George

    I appreciate everybody’s help again and looking forward to hearing any more suggestion.

  14. #14
    JRL
    Guest

    Time for a change

    George, thanks for the information. Frankly, I had hoped that you were using solid state equiptment, and would benefit from a switch to tubes. Alas, such is not the case. I'm using EL34's also, but in the triode mode. I love my S7's for what they're good at, but avoid playing the sort of music that reveals their shortcomings. You may have to do the same. You have to admit, though, that the Olympus enclosures are some of the most beautiful vintage items ever. Here's what I'd suggest: clean up all of the connections, buy or borrow a decent test cd and check each speaker at the frequencies that are bothering you to see if anything is amiss. If not, it's probably time to sell the JBL's and move on. Your JBL's are very marketable, and there are lots of interesting speakers in that price range, but that's another subject. Where do you live? Anyplace with some high-end dealers nearby where you could do some speaker auditioning?

  15. #15
    whgeiger
    Guest

    Suspect C/O Problem

    G,

    Check c/o components, particularly, attenuators for noise due to aging and remaining in the same position for a long duration of time, and capacitors for low series resistance due to aging. The LE85 needs a higher c/o than that of the 375; so, check this also. At 500 Hz. LE85’s start to sound a bit ‘raspy’.

    Regards,

    WHG

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