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Thread: Question about speaker cabinet design.

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    Question about speaker cabinet design.

    Ok, so now that I know that the stiffer and less resonant the cabinet is the better it sounds I have my next question, does/is the cabinet supposed to provide some sort of back pressure on the rear of the speaker cone? "ie" is a speaker with a cabinet that is totally stiff going to sound the same as a speaker with no cabinet whats so ever that is hung in mid air providing its mounted solid?

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    Junior Member Hooster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cradeldorf View Post
    Ok, so now that I know that the stiffer and less resonant the cabinet is the better it sounds I have my next question, does/is the cabinet supposed to provide some sort of back pressure on the rear of the speaker cone? "ie" is a speaker with a cabinet that is totally stiff going to sound the same as a speaker with no cabinet whats so ever that is hung in mid air providing its mounted solid?
    "I know that the stiffer and less resonant the cabinet is the better it sounds" You do? The people at Living Voice don't, and they know a thing or two about making speakers:

    http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/livingvoice5/1.html

    "The right type of chipboard created a naturally vibrant, energetic, powerful and radiant sound. Thicker panels diminished those qualities. Hence we use 18mm thickness, not the 22 or 24 which any marketing man would prefer. "


    The cabinet stops acoustic waves from traveling around the speaker cone, hitting it on the rear and thereby canceling the signal. There are speakers with no cabinet but they still have a bit of a baffle and use huge cones to overcome at least part of this cancellation effect.

    http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/jamo/909.html

    Others, like Nola, just use a cabinet for the woofers but have the midrange and tweeters on an open baffle because the acoustic wave from them is more directional and does not affect the rear of the driver in the same way as the acoustic wave from a woofer. A speaker hung in mid air with no cabinet is not going to produce any useful bass.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hooster View Post
    "I know that the stiffer and less resonant the cabinet is the better it sounds" You do? The people at Living Voice don't, and they know a thing or two about making speakers:

    http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/livingvoice5/1.html

    "The right type of chipboard created a naturally vibrant, energetic, powerful and radiant sound. Thicker panels diminished those qualities. Hence we use 18mm thickness, not the 22 or 24 which any marketing man would prefer. "


    The cabinet stops acoustic waves from traveling around the speaker cone, hitting it on the rear and thereby canceling the signal. There are speakers with no cabinet but they still have a bit of a baffle and use huge cones to overcome at least part of this cancellation effect.

    http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/jamo/909.html

    Others, like Nola, just use a cabinet for the woofers but have the midrange and tweeters on an open baffle because the acoustic wave from them is more directional and does not affect the rear of the driver in the same way as the acoustic wave from a woofer. A speaker hung in mid air with no cabinet is not going to produce any useful bass.
    well I don't know what I was thinking, I mean if a manufacturer would say that because they used the lowest quality of material available and claimed it to be the best for you it must be true, I mean no manufacturer would lie about their product. I have read quite a bit about cabinet design in the past week or 2 and quite a few have said concrete makes a good cabinet others have said the stiffer the structure the better several have said to use 1 1/2 inch Baltic birch and still others have said use 2 sheets of 3/4 with sand filled in between them? I guess their are a lot of opinions out there.

    I moseyed on over to the speaker builders bible on parts express and found my answer so I guess I don't need answers now.

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    Unabashed Speakerholic cosmos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cradeldorf View Post
    well I don't know what I was thinking, I mean if a manufacturer would say that because they used the lowest quality of material available and claimed it to be the best for you it must be true, I mean no manufacturer would lie about their product. I have read quite a bit about cabinet design in the past week or 2 and quite a few have said concrete makes a good cabinet others have said the stiffer the structure the better several have said to use 1 1/2 inch Baltic birch and still others have said use 2 sheets of 3/4 with sand filled in between them? I guess their are a lot of opinions out there.

    I moseyed on over to the speaker builders bible on parts express and found my answer so I guess I don't need answers now.
    Cool, I am glad you found the information you needed. Generally, you were correct in your first statement. A solid, low resonance cabinet is usually a far better cabinet. However, in audio, there are a million approaches to just about everything. Not all of them but one, is incorrect. One could argue that like a Stradivarius violin, a speaker cabinet is best to resonate. Not only do I see this as dubious approach, I see it extremely dangerous for a limited experience DIYer. BTW, 18mm isn't exactly thin material, it is about 3/4 inch. In cabinets as small as many manufacturers build today, 3/4" is fairly non resonant without bracing. I think the statement is taken a little out of context and may even be made by one trying to rationalize their cost cutting choices.

    Further, many of us would question anything coming from 6moons "just because".

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    Member Guy in WNY's Avatar
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    Consider the infinite baffle please?

    “A speaker hung in midair with no cabinet is not going to produce any useful bass.” Not true. I think you mean “A speaker hung in mid air with no BAFFLE…” because the concept of an infinite baffle has been used for years in wall and ceiling mounted speakers that have no dedicated “enclosure” and they work very well. It’s the baffle that keeps the back wave and front wave apart. The size of this baffle dictates the phase relationship of the waves, and they will cancel or enhance depending.
    Guy in WNY

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    Senior Member DavidF's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cradeldorf View Post
    "...well I don't know what I was thinking, I mean if a manufacturer would say that because they used the lowest quality of material available and claimed it to be the best for you it must be true, I mean no manufacturer would lie about their product. .."
    Uh oh, better shake off that idea before stepping out your door in the morning.

    There are design philosophies that can take you off in so many tangents relating to speaker system design. Some reputable firms will make every effort to reduce resonance in the system (Magico, Wilson Audio). Others take a different approach and work resonance into the design (Harbeth). Difficult to argue either is better or worse strictly on a listening experience basis.
    David F
    San Jose

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    Senior Member jcrobso's Avatar
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    Look at Bo$E claims

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidF View Post
    Uh oh, better shake off that idea before stepping out your door in the morning.

    There are design philosophies that can take you off in so many tangents relating to speaker system design. Some reputable firms will make every effort to reduce resonance in the system (Magico, Wilson Audio). Others take a different approach and work resonance into the design (Harbeth). Difficult to argue either is better or worse strictly on a listening experience basis.
    Bo$e, Cheep plastic enclosures that sound like systems costing 5 times more!
    Not all design philosophies are created equal!
    If you can remain calm in a crises, you don't understand the situation!

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    Quote Originally Posted by DavidF View Post
    Uh oh, better shake off that idea before stepping out your door in the morning.

    There are design philosophies that can take you off in so many tangents relating to speaker system design. Some reputable firms will make every effort to reduce resonance in the system (Magico, Wilson Audio). Others take a different approach and work resonance into the design (Harbeth). Difficult to argue either is better or worse strictly on a listening experience basis.
    Agreed. when I was young (16ish I saw the inside of my brother in laws Klipsch Hersey speaker and I was amazed to see the birdcage like thin wall construction. I guess its all in the listeners ears as you put it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Guy in WNY View Post
    “A speaker hung in midair with no cabinet is not going to produce any useful bass.” Not true. I think you mean “A speaker hung in mid air with no BAFFLE…” because the concept of an infinite baffle has been used for years in wall and ceiling mounted speakers that have no dedicated “enclosure” and they work very well. It’s the baffle that keeps the back wave and front wave apart. The size of this baffle dictates the phase relationship of the waves, and they will cancel or enhance depending.
    Well that explains why most of the time when I see a speaker design where they are just hanging out in mid air in the back the baffle usually has a slight curve to it such as the Nola one in the link that Hooster posted.

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    Junior Member 30 Hz's Avatar
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    Cabinet resonance

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but is there a movement out there that advocates box resonance? Many years ago a cabinet maker told me that you're not supposed to hear the box. At the time I didn't understand what he meant, but I soon figured it out. Mark Engabretsen wrote a chapter in some little audio book years ago in which he said in so many words; "the best material to construct a speaker cabinet with is lead, if you don't have lead concrete will do". Of course he was joking about the lead, but his point was constructing a non-resonant box.
    Recently I have been confronted by three individuals, one of whom should know better, suggested that a speaker cabinet should have not only one, but multiple resonant frequencies, essentially turning the box into a musical instrument. Resonance is a destructive force, and this concept goes against everything I know to be true after building speakers for forty years. Although I have had great luck doubling up 3/4 MDF, Avalon uses three layers of 3/4, with the middle layer of High Density Fiberboard. There is no substitute for mass, and such added mass makes a huge difference in the low-frequency band by providing solid and articulate bass. Who cares how heavy the box is, it's sitting in a living room, not used as a P.A. system. Call me old fashioned, but a bass reflex box is a resonator, but should not resonate.

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