Array 1400 with Mcintosh MC275 MKV and 501s

[jasonyeo]

Dear friends , I have a pair of Mcintosh MC501s and the Array 1400 speakers . I am thinking of adding a MC275 MKV just for the horn module and bass running by 501s . Will there be any ill effect ? Can it be done ?

By the way , what is the sensitivity of the horn module alone ?

[timc]

The sensitivity of the horn module, is the same. That is because there is passive attenuation, built into the crossover.

There is no reason why you should not use normal passive biamping. However, you will have to be able to adjust the gain to match. If you want to go active, the receipe is in the tech library.


-Tim

[jasonyeo]

Hi Tim , thanks. Not going for active bi amp at the moment . Passive will do .

Just want to smooth out the highs on the Array 1400 when listening to female vocals . Maybe my room is too small for the Array1400 coz when listening to certain recordings , the female voices tends to be bright and harsh . Thinking of adding tube amps to tame it .

[timc]

Sounds like you might have som trouble with first reflections. The horn on the Array should sound smooooooth at all times. It is far more laidback than the K2 and Everest. Try using some pillows to reduce your first reflection points. That is sidewalls and ceiling/floor. And perhaps on the wall behind your listening position.

[tom1040]

What is your pre amp? I am using MC402 & C46-the eq controls work well. Perhaps a tube pre may be helpful?

[polar_bear_0104]

i agree with tim,

what you're hearing is the sonic signature of the room, it's not that array. I worked in Sing for a while a few years back and I'm aware that residential spaces are a premium and therefore tend to be smaller than usual. If I were you, I'll work with a dealer who sells acoustic treatments.. ex. ASC et. al.. and invest in strategically putting diffusers, absorbers and bass traps in key locations in the room.

If you're patient enough, you can even research in the net on practical guides to improving sound using typical furnishings like book cases, etc. If you're a DIY, i have suggestions on what you can do, something I learned 10 years ago when I built a personal home theatre while I was still in the far east.

cheers

[jpw]

I tried both the below solutions to some brightness issues with our floor model JBL Everest DD66000's just over the last two days. Here is what you can expect.

When passively bi amping like you plan, you will need two amplifiers, regardless of whether tube or solid state, that have the same db of gain. Otherwise an amp with higher gain placed on the horn for example, will make it louder than the woofer. The would be the opposite of the effect you want. You may have to call McIntosh for this specification as I would not assume that all MAC amps have the same gain. Input sensitivity, measured in volts, is also a specification that you can rely on. If the numbers are the same for equal power output, the gain will be the same.

The problem with the bi amping approach is that the brightness is almost always a frequency response error with either the recording, room or speaker. With bi amping you would be trying to correct this problem with the more forgiving character of a tube amp, which does not change the frequency response significantly. It likely will soften the leading edges of transients a bit and warm up the sound overall. But unless your existing amp is glassy or sibilant sounding by nature, the bi amping is unlikely to go far enough toward solving your problem.

Have you consider room correction or graphic EQ? If the brightness you complain about is intermittent based on the recordings, you may just want some EQ or even basic tone controls to make these recordings more listenable. However if the problem is caused by frequency response errors generated by the room or the speaker itself, you may want to try the new McIntosh room correction equalizer or something like it. The cost is about the same as buying a MC-275, the $4000 range. Personally I think this much better money spent as you will solve a host of problems at many different frequencies and very likely the brightness problem too. Another consideration is upgrading your preamplifier to the new McIntosh C-50 preamp coming out next month. It has seven bands of graphic EQ built in, perfect for program material correction and also some limited room or speaker correction. Hope this helps. John. www.audiovideologic.com

[timc]

This got all a bit too comercial like for me.

If you want to spend the money wisely regarding small room problems, then $100 worth of room treatment is probably all you need.

[jasonyeo]

Sounds like you might have som trouble with first reflections. The horn on the Array should sound smooooooth at all times. It is far more laidback than the K2 and Everest. Try using some pillows to reduce your first reflection points. That is sidewalls and ceiling/floor. And perhaps on the wall behind your listening position.

Hi Tim,my room is fully treated . Ceiling, walls , floors has been treated with acoustic foams(ASC panels,Auralex bass traps and foam panels,ecophon panels + DIY diffusors) . It just sounds harsh and bright on certain recordings

[jasonyeo]

What is your pre amp? I am using MC402 & C46-the eq controls work well. Perhaps a tube pre may be helpful?

I am using the Mcintosh C220 tube pre . I have 2 CD players , one tube and one solid state . The solid state sounds less harsh and bright than the tube CD player. Tube cdp is Raysonic CD128 and the solid state cdp is Ayre C5xe MP . All round copper cables except speaker cables is a mixture of silver and copper. Tested copper only but sounds more bright

[jasonyeo]

i agree with tim,

what you're hearing is the sonic signature of the room, it's not that array. I worked in Sing for a while a few years back and I'm aware that residential spaces are a premium and therefore tend to be smaller than usual. If I were you, I'll work with a dealer who sells acoustic treatments.. ex. ASC et. al.. and invest in strategically putting diffusers, absorbers and bass traps in key locations in the room.

If you're patient enough, you can even research in the net on practical guides to improving sound using typical furnishings like book cases, etc. If you're a DIY, i have suggestions on what you can do, something I learned 10 years ago when I built a personal home theatre while I was still in the far east.

cheers

As mentioned , my room is already fully treated with lot of foams,fiberglass,rockwool,bass traps and etc..... I have tested by changing foams to diffusors or vice versa but that did not help to tame down .

[jasonyeo]

I tried both the below solutions to some brightness issues with our floor model JBL Everest DD66000's just over the last two days. Here is what you can expect.

When passively bi amping like you plan, you will need two amplifiers, regardless of whether tube or solid state, that have the same db of gain. Otherwise an amp with higher gain placed on the horn for example, will make it louder than the woofer. The would be the opposite of the effect you want. You may have to call McIntosh for this specification as I would not assume that all MAC amps have the same gain. Input sensitivity, measured in volts, is also a specification that you can rely on. If the numbers are the same for equal power output, the gain will be the same.

The problem with the bi amping approach is that the brightness is almost always a frequency response error with either the recording, room or speaker. With bi amping you would be trying to correct this problem with the more forgiving character of a tube amp, which does not change the frequency response significantly. It likely will soften the leading edges of transients a bit and warm up the sound overall. But unless your existing amp is glassy or sibilant sounding by nature, the bi amping is unlikely to go far enough toward solving your problem.

Have you consider room correction or graphic EQ? If the brightness you complain about is intermittent based on the recordings, you may just want some EQ or even basic tone controls to make these recordings more listenable. However if the problem is caused by frequency response errors generated by the room or the speaker itself, you may want to try the new McIntosh room correction equalizer or something like it. The cost is about the same as buying a MC-275, the $4000 range. Personally I think this much better money spent as you will solve a host of problems at many different frequencies and very likely the brightness problem too. Another consideration is upgrading your preamplifier to the new McIntosh C-50 preamp coming out next month. It has seven bands of graphic EQ built in, perfect for program material correction and also some limited room or speaker correction. Hope this helps. John. www.audiovideologic.com

Thanks for the advice but I do not like to engage EQ on speakers except super deep bass from subwoofer which is not practical to tame using comercial bass traps . I still prefer to use foams and diffusors for above 80hz .

Mcintosh 501 state 4.2V input sensitivity and 275 is 2.5V . What does this stand? Can someone help to explain , thanks.

[timc]

Hi Tim,my room is fully treated . Ceiling, walls , floors has been treated with acoustic foams(ASC panels,Auralex bass traps and foam panels,ecophon panels + DIY diffusors) . It just sounds harsh and bright on certain recordings

Have you verified the results of your room treatment? I have been in numerous rooms that have been treated wrongly. It sounds absolute crap.

Or perheps the harsh sounding recordings, is just plainly bad?

[jasonyeo]

Have you verified the results of your room treatment? I have been in numerous rooms that have been treated wrongly. It sounds absolute crap.

Or perheps the harsh sounding recordings, is just plainly bad?

Did not verify the results but home theater sounds pretty nice to me

Good recordings sounds good but the those sounds I like is those with super highs on female vocals .. So need to find ways to tame it

[timc]

Using the HT sound for reference is a mistake. You should get someone knowledgable to measure your inromme response (impulse response). I will be surprised if you don't see any anomalies, taking into acount your description of the sound.

My guess is that you either have "step" in the respons giving you a peak in the 8-10KHz area, or that you have an uneven reverberation time in your room.