New to this forum (and I bring questions!)

[Toka]

Hi folks,

I'm new to this forum and relatively new to JBL itself...been into audio for many years but for whatever reason I never heard a set of JBL's that really grabbed me (truth be told many were not in the best state of repair when I heard them).

Anyway I recently heard some that knocked my socks off...don't recall the model # but they were pro monitors with a blue face. Anyway, wow!

I've since been looking at picking up a pair (or more) of JBL's for myself. Looking at the various models in the library and reading up here it appears that the 'T3' line would be a good fit for me. I say that because I would want to have, at the very least, fronts/rears from the same line, and the fronts would have to have sufficient bass output on their own without a sub. I like a balanced, punchy sound...listen to just about everything but mostly classic/hard rock. Also getting into '78s from the big band era. Oh, and they can't cost an arm and a leg.

I have noticed, though, that while the tweeters are offset in this line, the speakers are not mirror-imaged...anyone know why that is? I see that the 240ti's were (another one on my list), so its a bit confusing. Whether or not it makes an audible difference is one thing, but it would matter in my mind.

I'm also open to suggestions for other JBL's to keep an eye out for...250ti's seem like a great choice but not sure I'd be able to get them for a reasonable price.

Anyway I'm sure I'll have many more questions...this seems like a great forum from what I've seen thus far and I'm looking forward to learning (and listening) as much as possible!

[Titanium Dome]

Hope you enjoy our time here.

[HCSGuy]

Welcome to the forum, hope you have fun!

If you heard and liked blue-face monitors, most likely they were the 43xx series from the late70's/early80's. These were built for recording studios, ranged from 8" 2-ways to 18" 4-ways, and were the first JBL's to use time alignment in the crossover. They are lots of fun to listen to, as you've heard

You mention the "T3" series, which was in there consumer line from about '88-'92. It's my favorite series, especially the L100T3, which really rocks. Unfortunately, there are some drawbacks which may make collecting it difficult or require patience. Mainly it was Harman's use of reconstituted wood veneer on this series that seems to keep the series from holding up well over time. The veneer is thin and not very hard, so edges and corners tend to get crushed easily. Also, the reddish ("Walnut") finish fades pretty easy, so most samples have a "Bikini tan", where the section behind the fabric grill looks great, but the exposed section above/below is faded. Because the veneer is not natural, and is not available for purchase (if you find a source, let me know!), you cannot re-veneer the cabinets, and the thinness of the veneer precludes you from sanding and restaining them. So, if you are a meticulous collector, it will be very hard to find pristine examples, especially in the more common, smaller sizes (L20t3, L40t3). However, if you can live with some fading/scratches, their really fun to listen to.

Next, there is no matching center speaker for the series, so you can use a L20t3 if a vertical speaker works in your system. JBL didn't catch on to the surround thing for quite a while, as even the next series (L1, L3, L5, L7) didn't have a matching center.

Regarding mirror-imaging, here's a good link for information on edge diffraction:
http://www.linkwitzlab.com/diffraction.htm

You'll see that you get smoother frequency response by offsetting the drivers, which JBL did, though it doesn't matter to which side you offset them, and mirror imaging is more psychological than measurable. However, as you note, JBL did not usually build speakers in mirror imaged pairs in this era as I think any consumer speaker (except the 250 and its iterations) that was boxed individually was cranked out in mass and mirror imaging would mean they would have to track left and right speakers of each pair. At this time, JBL also didn't sell "Matched" pairs, by the way.

Since you're starting out on your collecting, here's my tips on this vintage:
1. Save up for a pair of 250Ti's. Period. There is nothing else close in this vintage and they're worth every penny. If you buy every other speaker and don't get a pair of these, you'll still wish you had a pair. If you buy a pair of these, you can skip everything else in the consumer line and not really miss much.
2. L100T3's are the best of the t3 series, though you can get L100T's and upgrade the crossover for the same sound. The earlier T series used a different veneer that while thin, was harder and resisted fade better, so you will find more clean examples of this series.
3. Avoid most of the Ti series. The 250Ti is of course excepted. The 18ti is a great sounding bookshelf, but is now sold at a premium for its tweeter, which is used to upgrade L-250's to 250ti's. The 120Ti and 240Ti are mediocre sounding speakers that are little more than boxes to hold valuable drivers (especially the 240Ti, which has LE14-1 woofers in it).

Good luck, and let us know what you hear that you really like!

[Robh3606]

Hello Toka

Welcome to the Forum. Start small with a pair of L20t3 and run them with a sub. They will surprise you.

Hello HCSguy

and were the first JBL's to use time alignment in the crossover.

The Big Blues?? Which ones?? The Urei's for sure and possibly the 4430.

Rob

[BMWCCA]

You'll see that you get smoother frequency response by offsetting the drivers, which JBL did, though it doesn't matter to which side you offset them, and mirror imaging is more psychological than measurable. However, as you note, JBL did not usually build speakers in mirror imaged pairs in this era as I think any consumer speaker (except the 250 and its iterations) that was boxed individually was cranked out in mass and mirror imaging would mean they would have to track left and right speakers of each pair.

Before the t/T3 series, most home JBLs were matched pairs. The L112 and L96 come to mind. You didn't offer much description of what you did hear and liked, but if you heard a 12" or 10"-woofer blue-faced monitor, you could have heard studio versions of one of those. I'm gonna take a chance on showing my ignorance here and say the mirror-imaging was more important in a near-field monitor used in studio than it will be in your living room where you'll be sitting in a sweet-spot ten-feet away from your speakers, but go ahead and blind-test them yourself!

Don't pass up a pair of L100T or L80Ts since they seem to be more common than the T3 versions, might be in better condition, and cheaper. Members here can help with converting the crossover to T3 specs or you can find the later crossover on Ebay rather frequently. I've converted two-pair of L80Ts to T3s and never paid over $20 for a pair of T3 crossovers, shipped. That being said, I still prefer the sound of the L96 to the L80T/3 and many prefer the studio-version 4410 to the 4412s. There are a lot of people here slamming individual drivers and just recently we had a take-down of the 044 phenolic tweeter compared to the later titanium 035Ti/A, etc. I don't get it and my experience with the L150A, L112, and L96 just doesn't bear out such generalized damning of the 044.

You haven't told us what you listen too, how loud you listen, how big your room is, how much space you have for speakers (250s are HUGE!), or what the rest of your system is or will be. There are plenty of great JBLs out there and many of us have more than one we love and would recommend. I suspect you'll be happy with whatever choice you make until or unless you have a chance to put more than one pair in the same room.

And of course a favorite safe-bet for first-time JBL owners is always the L5 so don't forget those ugly black-tower series, particularly if you're looking for bang-for-the-buck.

[Altec Best]

Welcome to the board Toka! Best of Luck with your search, may you find the best pair of JBL's you can !!




Kind Regards ~ AB

[Titanium Dome]

Before the t/T3 series, most home JBLs were matched pairs. The L112 and L96 come to mind.

And of course a favorite safe-bet for first-time JBL owners is always the L5 so don't forget those ugly black-tower series, particularly if you're looking for bang-for-the-buck.

Before the t/T3 series, some home JBLs were matched pairs. The L112 comes to mind as one that was, sold "matched" since they were mirrored and dealers were SOL if they sold two lefts and were stuck with two rights. The L100, L150, L65 Jubal, L200, L300, L220, L40, and the L166 were neither matched nor mirrored. One could go into any JBL dealer (in NW Ohio and SW Michigan) and buy a single, a pair, three, or ten if one wished. I doubt the L96 was "matched' too, but maybe some dealers sold it as a "matched pair" only. It was not sold near me.

The L5 recommendation is a good one. It's not a blue-faced monitor. It is however, among the best performing used JBLs out there for under $500 a pair used, and ugly is subjective. Ask my mom.

[BMWCCA]

The L100, L150, L65 Jubal, L200, L300, L220, L40, and the L166 were neither matched nor mirrored. One could go into any JBL dealer (in NW Ohio and SW Michigan) and buy a single, a pair, three, or ten if one wished. I doubt the L96 was "matched' too, but maybe some dealers sold it as a "matched pair" only.

Yes, I miss-remembered and misspoke. Thanks for correcting that. Of course the tech papers on the L112 go to great lengths extolling the virtues of mirror-imaging pairs, but the benefits were pitched for horizontal use, not vertical. Since for most of my life my JBLs (030 C37, L112, 4412A) were mirrored, I guess I applied wishful thinking to the L96s. Obviously doesn't hurt their performance, to answer the original question in this thread!

At least JBL bothered to mirror the L7 pairs, on the front baffle as well as the obvious side-firing 12-inchers.

[Hooster]

The only JBL speakers I ever had were L20T. In a small room with a big amp, 100 watts+ they were very satisfying.

[BMWCCA]

The only JBL speakers I ever had were L20T. In a small room with a big amp, 100 watts+ they were very satisfying.

And no one is questioning that here. I have a pair in my daughter's room running with a Crown PS-200 and a Soundcraftsmen Pro-PT Two. They sound quite nice. Check the Virginia small JBL shootout to see how they compared: http://www.audioheritage.org/vbullet...L-mini-comparo

[Wayne]

JBL did not usually build speakers in mirror imaged pairs in this era as I think any consumer speaker (except the 250 and its iterations) that was boxed individually was cranked out in mass and mirror imaging would mean they would have to track left and right speakers of each pair. At this time, JBL also didn't sell "Matched" pairs, by the way.

Actualy my L110's are a matched pair, there numbers being 18881 & 18882

I do like those numbers.

Cheers Wayne

[Titanium Dome]

Actualy my L110's are a matched pair, there numbers being 18881 & 18882

I do like those numbers.

Cheers Wayne

That's cute. I can imagine them coming down the assembly line veneer touching veneer, holding hands, and being together ever after.


But what if 18881 really should have been with 18880? I can only imagine being chained for life to the wrong match!

[4313B]

But what if 18881 really should have been with 18880? I can only imagine being chained for life to the wrong match!

Dammit Dome! I JUST ran those numbers and 18880 WAS the correct mate. How tragic!

[Altec Best]

What the man should have said was that mines are Sequential !!!!!!

[Wayne]

What the man should have said was that mines are Sequential !!!!!!

Now this is why I like this place so much, I've never enjoyed having the piss taken out of me before let alone laugh my ass off, but the above reply's are fantastic.

Thanks for pointing out my short-comings guys, but it's all a learning curve for me & if you all don't point out where I'm getting it wrong then I'd be living a life of ignorance.

Welcome Toka, I hope you enjoy your time here as much as I have.

Cheers wayne