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Thread: h66000 h9900 h4365

  1. #31
    Senior Member timc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4313B View Post
    As for trying to maintain some semblence of Everest II voicing? Whatever...
    If that is the goal (as in this case), then "transpose" the filter to the impedance needed.

    I'll gladly help if I can get the frequency and impedance files.

    Edit: My comment about taste, was purly general. I can see no reason why you would want to change a S9900/DD66000 voicing.
    2213 + 2435HPL w/aquaplas + H9800 (Matsj edition)

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by timc View Post
    I'll gladly help if I can get the frequency and impedance files.
    Get them from Guido for his specific application.

    It's going to be tough to get good measurements down low enough to be of any use. You're dealing with crossover frequencies at ~150 Hz and ~700 Hz. The 150 Hz crossover can be adjusted by ear for the intended room. The 700 Hz crossover frequency could be tough, maybe a ground plane measurement on a tennis court or gymnasium floor. Maybe near-field and far-field measurements and then a minimum phase transform run on the spliced frequency response curve. You'll figure it out I'm sure.

    Good luck. It should be fun.

  3. #33
    Senior Member timc's Avatar
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    Ah...I thought the curves where already available.

    I have the facilities to do anechoic measurements down to around 150Hz, but i don't have the drivers.
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  4. #34
    Senior Member Guido's Avatar
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    Why can't we just work it out together?
    Why beating starts again?

    Giskard, take your time please. I have to finish other works too but in between I play a bit with the EV2-1500AL thing. It is an interesting task and it's fun to play with.
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  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guido View Post
    Why can't we just work it out together?
    Why beating starts again?

    Giskard, take your time please. I have to finish other works too but in between I play a bit with the EV2-1500AL thing. It is an interesting task and it's fun to play with.
    Starting with post 18 I was going to visually break down the high pass step by step but with every post I made I was being interrupted. I think you get the gist of it though so the exercise was probably moot anyway. You'll figure out if and how you need to manipulate any or all of the notch filters given your specific horn build. If you are using the H4338 horn as your base things will be different. I have no idea how you are building your horn since you haven't divulged that information.

    I showed you how to easily affect the sensitivity but there is only roughly 3 dB of leeway in the network, after that other components have to be adjusted for greater sensitivity gain should it be required. If you end up using real low DCR coils on the low pass you might have to adjust for that.

  6. #36
    Senior Member timc's Avatar
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    Aha...so its me to blame is it?

    Well, sorry for showing some enthusiasm. It won't happen again, I promise.
    2213 + 2435HPL w/aquaplas + H9800 (Matsj edition)

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by timc View Post
    Aha...so its me to blame is it?

    Well, sorry for showing some enthusiasm. It won't happen again, I promise.
    No, it's my fault. This all should have been done between Guido and myself on a private forum. You and I are on two completely different pages with this. You're right from the perspective of building a proper network for a new system. I'm dealing with existing parameters. Building new networks from scratch is neato and all that but it completely destroys the voicing of the system as designed. This isn't going to be right on but it should be pretty close.

    And as for interrupting my stride, that's what I get for posting in realtime. I should have had all my posts premade and then dumped them all into the thread at once... I apologize for getting aggravated.

  8. #38
    Senior Member Guido's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4313B View Post
    I have no idea how you are building your horn since you haven't divulged that information.
    I have a horn that is a combination of conical and exponential design, as the H9800 and H4338 are. I would say it is VERY close to the original EV2 horn. I can't take measurements yet as the horn is part of the cabinet and the cabinet isn't done yet.
    At present I try to work out the starting networks with LEAP and your help. When simulations are carefully done with LEAP one don't need to tweak much later, that's my experience.
    The networks and drivers will hopepully find their way into the cabinets in spring and then I'll listen, measure, tweak, listen ........ and of course post.

    I'll open LEAP now
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  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by timc View Post
    If that is the goal (as in this case), then "transpose" the filter to the impedance needed.
    The 1500AL (8 ohm driver) engineering standard has a dcr of 5.3 ohms, a minimum impedance of 7.5 ohms and a motional impedance of 130 ohms.

    The 1501AL (12 ohm driver) engineering standard has a dcr of 9.2 ohms, a minimum impedance of 11.7 ohms and a motional impedance of 300 ohms.

    You can transpose the following schematic if you wish. I believe that our problem is with the motional impedance. I will post a normalized set of impedance curves momentarily to highlight my point.
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  10. #40
    Senior Member richluvsound's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by timc View Post
    Ah...I thought the curves where already available.

    I have the facilities to do anechoic measurements down to around 150Hz, but i don't have the drivers.
    If you havent got the drivers then please leave the thread alone .... what you offer is of no PRACTICAL
    use to those that are actually doing this ..... YOU MIGHT JUST LEARN SOMETHING . It has been stated so many times that theory only gets you 50 % there .... Simulations are just simulations, like comparing masturbation to a real good session with a hot partner ......

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4313B View Post
    I will post a normalized set of impedance curves momentarily to highlight my point.
    Here's the graph.

    Transposing works well enough in the 100 Hz to 1 kHz range. The delta is 4.6 ohms with the two specific drivers I have. There's more coil inductance in the 1501AL (it does indeed have more coil) and it has a higher motional impedance and those are our differences to deal with.

    Now, in Greg's LEAP file the impedance guide curve tops out at 75 ohms, not at nearly 135 ohms as shown here... Reference the gray curve in Post #4
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  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guido View Post
    I have a horn that is a combination of conical and exponential design, as the H9800 and H4338 are. I would say it is VERY close to the original EV2 horn. I can't take measurements yet as the horn is part of the cabinet and the cabinet isn't done yet.
    Ok. I've noticed that the H4338 horn had more bottom end than the Everest II horn so you might have a problem with the stock Everest II network if your horn ends up similar to the H4338. If I remember correctly, the H9800 doesn't have quite as much bottom end as the H4338.

    As an aside, the H4365 is a cosmetically altered H4338, they both peform similarly.

  13. #43
    Senior Member Guido's Avatar
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    Graphs for Giskard crossover mod post #2

    Here are the resulting graphs for crossover mod post #2

    2-3 dB higher sensitivity with the 1500AL's
    Imp goes down to 3.5 Ohms when keeping original coil DCR's
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  14. #44
    Senior Member Guido's Avatar
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    Graphs for my schematic mod version A

    Here is my first hit, open for further refinement.

    Impedance goes down to 4 ohms.
    Sensitivity isn't that much higher for the 1500AL's in the crossover region. But there is too much juice under 200 Hz.
    What to do?
    Maybe better use the Giskard mod post #2 and an increased MF sensitivity? But whats with the UHF?
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  15. #45
    Senior Member Guido's Avatar
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    Impedance 476Be on H66000

    Giskard,

    can we get an impedance file for the 476Be on the H66000?
    That would be great to modify the MF part.
    BLS Reference on Passlabs XA 30.5 + Everest DD66000 clone on Pass XA 100.5

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