Page 1 of 4 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 51

Thread: 1400 Array Question

  1. #1
    Senior Member Audionutz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    177

    1400 Array Question

    I've had the 1400's for about 2 months now from new and they probably have about 150-200 hours in total on them.

    Apart from being simply amazing, even my wife says they also look fantastic !

    I'm very happy with them, but have a query already . Now, this may well be a factor of them not having enough hours on them yet, but I thought I'd ask anyway.

    Having the LE14 14" going up to 750 seems to be giving me a slight "hollowness" and lack of bite at certain frequencies - namely notes from double bass, bass guitar or lower male vocals such as Lennard Cohen etc.

    I had a quick peek inside and saw there's no damping directly behind the driver ?

    Is this something that would be worth trying ? I know it works well on other makes and models. I'm not talking masses of material, more like a couple of layers of Dacron, or similar sealed across the rear of the LE1400.

    A couple of friends who have built speakers seconded this idea, not that that necessarily means a thing of course

    All I'd be trying to do is attenuate the particular frequency in question, nothing else.

    Of course, I could be barking up the wrong tree completely .... and it wouldn't be the first time either, I can assure you !

    Cheers

    'Nutz
    Thats not a speaker ......*That's* a Speaker !
    (With apologies to Michael J. "Crocodile" Dundee)

  2. #2
    Senior Member Valentin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Mexico
    Posts
    730
    what about room interactions

  3. #3
    Senior Member Audionutz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    177
    That was something I also wondered about.

    Is it possible, or likely, that room interactions could affect such a specific frequency ?

    Please forgive what may be a seemingly obvious question, but this is one area I have very little experience with.

    Cheers

    'Nutz
    Thats not a speaker ......*That's* a Speaker !
    (With apologies to Michael J. "Crocodile" Dundee)

  4. #4
    Administrator Robh3606's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Rocinante
    Posts
    8,036
    Hello Nutz

    First off I don't share your experience with my clones. My first thought would also be to look into placement issues. A simple rule of thumb is to have no 2 dimensions the same with respect to a woofers distance from room boundary's. An example would be woofer height 2 ft and distance from back wall 2 ft and so on. The worst case would be all three dimensions the same. Mine are at least 3ft from any room boundary except the floor as far as the woofer is concerned which are about 26" to the center of the Le-14. See if any of the spacings match if they do try moving things around a little and see if it helps.

    Could also be where you are seated so try moving your listening position as well or move around the room and see if the hollowness changes as you move around.

    Post a picture of how they are positioned if you can.

    Rob
    "I could be arguing in my spare time"

  5. #5
    Senior Member Valentin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Mexico
    Posts
    730
    Is it possible, or likely, that room interactions could affect such a specific frequency ?
    what is the problematic frequency


    in my opinion if it is below the 500 Hz it is probably a room interaction

    arrays are not perfect but are very good in frequency response specially in the lower registers (that could be the problem) faithfulness

    what about the recording that is a another big factor (many are far form being good) and you know what thy say bad in bad out

  6. #6
    Administrator Mr. Widget's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    San Francisco
    Posts
    10,110
    Quote Originally Posted by Audionutz View Post
    I had a quick peek inside and saw there's no damping directly behind the driver ?

    Is this something that would be worth trying ? I know it works well on other makes and models. I'm not talking masses of material, more like a couple of layers of Dacron, or similar sealed across the rear of the LE1400.
    First of all, these speakers are such a well balanced set of compromises I wouldn't start messing about with them. Secondly, Dacron is a pretty poor damping material. Thirdly, I won't speculate on what is or isn't happening in your system, but in my room while not perfect, the 1400s are close enough that I am content with them warts and all. I have very rarely ever felt this way. I have had these speakers for several months and am still enjoying the hell out of them.


    Widget

  7. #7
    Senior Member Audionutz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    177
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Widget View Post
    First of all, these speakers are such a well balanced set of compromises I wouldn't start messing about with them. Secondly, Dacron is a pretty poor damping material. Thirdly, I won't speculate on what is or isn't happening in your system, but in my room while not perfect, the 1400s are close enough that I am content with them warts and all. I have very rarely ever felt this way. I have had these speakers for several months and am still enjoying the hell out of them.


    Widget
    Well said. I fear I may be starting to fall into the "nitpicking" syndrome. In other words, they are so good that I'm looking for things to criticize.

    I too have always found many things to pick on with almost every pair of speakers I've had - and there have been many. The 1400's make me smile, simple as that. Maybe after several years use, as different areas of technology improve, there might be room to improve them. But for now I think I need to settle down and get to know them better.

    I will still post up some pics and room measurements to see if improvements can be made in positioning etc.

    Thanks to all for the "restrained" answers I suspect many would have tempted to ask me what the hell I was thinking, starting to pull apart speakers with this much design, testing and heritage behind them.

    Consider me suitably "brought back to earth"

    Cheers

    'Nutz
    Thats not a speaker ......*That's* a Speaker !
    (With apologies to Michael J. "Crocodile" Dundee)

  8. #8
    Senior Member Audionutz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    177
    Quote Originally Posted by Robh3606 View Post
    Hello Nutz

    First off I don't share your experience with my clones. My first thought would also be to look into placement issues. A simple rule of thumb is to have no 2 dimensions the same with respect to a woofers distance from room boundary's. An example would be woofer height 2 ft and distance from back wall 2 ft and so on. The worst case would be all three dimensions the same. Mine are at least 3ft from any room boundary except the floor as far as the woofer is concerned which are about 26" to the center of the Le-14. See if any of the spacings match if they do try moving things around a little and see if it helps.

    Could also be where you are seated so try moving your listening position as well or move around the room and see if the hollowness changes as you move around.

    Post a picture of how they are positioned if you can.

    Rob

    Thanks Rob,

    here are some pics of the room. Size is 16' x 16'. Pitched roof approx 20 feet high. No treatments, other than the heavy woolen theater drapes as seen. Under those are bare stud walls. Carpet over solid concrete floor. Speakers on supplied spikes. Speakers are placed 75" out from rear wall and 67" out from side walls. Listening seat is 47" from the rear wall. Speaker to listening seat 130". 99" between the speakers. All measurements taken to the center of the bass driver, not to cabinet edges.

    Hope this all makes sense - if not, please let me know ?

    Cheers

    Scott
    Attached Images Attached Images     
    Thats not a speaker ......*That's* a Speaker !
    (With apologies to Michael J. "Crocodile" Dundee)

  9. #9
    Senior Member Woofer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    694
    Try bringing them in by 6"-12" each, and possibly raise them by about 6".
    Also move the 4350's to somewhere else.
    I might be deaf, but I can still hear da bells! (Quasimodo)
    .... Oh, and the Kick Drum.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Audionutz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    177
    Quote Originally Posted by Woofer View Post
    Try bringing them in by 6"-12" each, and possibly raise them by about 6".
    Also move the 4350's to somewhere else.
    Do you mean closer to one another by 6-12" ?

    Can do the first two, but short of another dimension, there's nowhere else for the 4350's for now ....
    Thats not a speaker ......*That's* a Speaker !
    (With apologies to Michael J. "Crocodile" Dundee)

  11. #11
    Senior Member Audionutz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    177
    Quote Originally Posted by Woofer View Post
    Try bringing them in by 6"-12" each, and possibly raise them by about 6".
    Also move the 4350's to somewhere else.

    Also, tweeters are just above ear level now as they stand ?
    Thats not a speaker ......*That's* a Speaker !
    (With apologies to Michael J. "Crocodile" Dundee)

  12. #12
    Senior Member Woofer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    694
    yes, closer to each other.
    the only reason I suggest raising them, is to just check if there's any floor coupling and interaction.

    the 4350's might be also be interacting and resonating at the frequencies you're having problems with.
    afterall, that's 4 extra 15" speakers in your room just waiting to join in on the 'harmonies'.
    at least turn them around just to see if there's any noticeable difference.
    I might be deaf, but I can still hear da bells! (Quasimodo)
    .... Oh, and the Kick Drum.

  13. #13
    Senior Member Woofer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    694
    Quote Originally Posted by Audionutz View Post
    Also, tweeters are just above ear level now as they stand ?
    there's a good reason for raising and tilting boxes, and that's to stop standing waves.
    you have to eliminate direct reflection.
    just raising the box by 6" and then tilting even a couple of inches can do absolute wonders...
    I might be deaf, but I can still hear da bells! (Quasimodo)
    .... Oh, and the Kick Drum.

  14. #14
    Administrator Robh3606's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Rocinante
    Posts
    8,036
    just raising the box by 6" and then tilting even a couple of inches can do absolute wonders...
    If they were 4344 I would agree 100% you need to get the 2235 up off the floor. That said you had to keep the 2405/077 at ear level becasue of directivity issues. Unlike the 4344's these were designed as floor standers so the woofers are up high in the cabinet. You could raise them but watch the tweeter level. You don't want them too high or you will be out of the UHF cone in the vertical axis. Take a look at the Stereophile review and see how smooth the lower 15 degrees of the vertical polar measurement is on the system. You obviously want the system height and listening height in the smoothest part of the arc. It could be on axis and above in the top side of the arc or above the tweeter. Check it out so if you do decide to rasie them you don't trade one problem for another.

    Rob
    "I could be arguing in my spare time"

  15. #15
    Senior Member Woofer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    694
    That's why I suggested tilting the boxes slightly too Rob.
    'nutz has a problem, so I'm trying to recommend anything that may help resolve it.
    Nothing is permanent.
    It's all a matter of trial and error, and crossing things off on a list eliminating what is not the culprit gives you something to do on a rainy day. Doesn't hurt to try.
    Hell, I'd hang 'em off the roof upside down and turned inside out if I knew it would help!

    Cheers.
    I might be deaf, but I can still hear da bells! (Quasimodo)
    .... Oh, and the Kick Drum.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. JBL 1400 Array - Top ten?
    By tom1040 in forum Lansing Product General Information
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: 07-17-2010, 10:55 AM
  2. Array 1400
    By tom1040 in forum Lansing Product General Information
    Replies: 28
    Last Post: 12-09-2009, 10:56 PM
  3. 1400 Array
    By Techbot in forum System Information
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 08-26-2006, 09:11 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •