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Thread: Altec Model 19 - replacement of 802 with TAD 2001 compression driver

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    Altec Model 19 - replacement of 802 with TAD 2001 compression driver

    Hello -


    Can someone please weigh in on the issues/ramifications related to replacing the 802 with TAD2001? Current model 19 is stock. I got the TAD at a reasonable price that allows me to test them and re-sell if they don't work for me. I am a big fan of TAD - had a TAD-based system I built awhile back but had too much money into it so had to sell.

    Anyhow, any attachment issues to the horn for the TAD2001?

    I am assuming the potentiometer setting for the high freq will have to be lowered (or pot for low frequency raised) from recommended pot settings as I think the TAD is higher sensititivity though not sure.

    Aside from that, I am also assuming crossover should be fine. TAD recommends 800 Hz or higher cutoff.

    Using a very heavily modified Mapleshade/Scott 222-d which is an incredible match with the model 19.

    Any help or advice from those who have done a similar thing is greatly appreciated.

    Thanks,

    Don

  2. #2
    Senior Member Altec Best's Avatar
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    Have you ever rebuilt the X-over in the 19 first.If not I highly recommend and bypass the ground lugs on the X-over as they become oxidized over time and can tell you they don't make good grounds after 30 years.It made a huge difference for my pair


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    "James B. Lansing" = Lansing Manufacturing ~ Altec Lansing ~ JBL

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    I have pulled the crossovers out and was going to spray the pots with deoxit (could not find a good entry point so I just worked the pots back and forth for now and that has worked pretty well). Other than that, have not done anything with the crossovers - overall the crossovers looked pretty good but I thought about sending them back to GPA to check out for any issues. The speakers sounded great so I did not pursue this quite yet.



    I would like to do this. How did you do it? Original values? Did GPA or Todd White do this? It looks like you built a new chasis? I would like to stay with the original chasis but I'll bet the size of the caps you show prevent this.

    Thanks,

    Don

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    Senior Member Altec Best's Avatar
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    Read this thread

    Here's a thread over at the Altec Board that was just discussed recently on this same subject.I had suggested this X-over upgrade to another member who did the upgrade and was completely Blown Away as I was.The difference is Night & Day No exaggeration.For the cost of about $115 for parts is truely rewarding ! And the Ground Lug Bypass with a direct wire connection is absolutely necessary ! IMHO Regards ~ John



    http://www.hostboard.com/forums/alte...-19s-sale.html
    "James B. Lansing" = Lansing Manufacturing ~ Altec Lansing ~ JBL

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    Quote Originally Posted by Altec Best View Post
    Here's a thread over at the Altec Board that was just discussed recently on this same subject.I had suggested this X-over upgrade to another member who did the upgrade and was completely Blown Away as I was.The difference is Night & Day No exaggeration.For the cost of about $115 for parts is truely rewarding ! And the Ground Lug Bypass with a direct wire connection is absolutely necessary ! IMHO Regards ~ John



    http://www.hostboard.com/forums/alte...-19s-sale.html
    Very Interesting. I have not decided whether I should do this one myself. It sounds like Dave can really get this right since he has done it previously. Do you have his contact info. Probably would get the resistors as well. Can you pinpoint in one of your photos the ground lug bypass, or is it obvious?

    Still interested to know if anyone has put in TAD 2001 in the 19s. I seem to remember finding a thread on this at some point but have not been successful in locating it. I am not sure if it was on this board.

    Thanks again. Great resource is this place.

    Don

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    I replaced the Altec 802-8Gs with TAD TD-2001s in my Altec M19s about 3 years ago.

    http://www.audioheritage.org/vbullet...ht=#post182528

    The TADs bolt right up to the 811B horns, no problemo.

    The TADs by ear seem to be about the same sensitivity as the Altecs. Even after I had Orange County Speakers recharge them. You have to readjust the pots by ear (by taste) to get the best balance, but I always end up still well within the indicated "optimum" range as with the 802s.

    Crossover's OK as stock. In fact, I like it a lot better that the aftermarket Iconic version. IMO it might be good to keep it stock until you get a handle on just what the TAD is (or isn't) contributing. Too many variables at once can really send you down the wrong path. I've gone to a charge coupled configuration with Carli Mylar caps, Dueland resistors, and stock inductors. I've also done the ground bypass that Altec Best pioneered. That works well.

    As for cleaning the pots, I unbolted them from the front plate, and carefully unpryed the mounting tabs on the cover so that I could remove it from the ceramic body of the pot. I then took grey Scotchbrite and Deoxit and polished the internals. Wiped up with alcohol, light spray of Deoxit, and reassembled.

    I'm currently using a modified el cheapo Chinese PP 6P6 amp. Very similar to your PP 7189 Scott 222-D.

    For speaker setup, I found it best to have the speakers pointed right at your ears. When you are sitting in the listening position, shine a flashlight right into the horns. You want to clearly see the phaseplugs pointing directly at you (you did remove the bug screens didn't you?).

    The TADs give the M19s a more refined character with HF air without the brashness of the 802s, but be aware there is a slight suck out in the response of the TADs around 1.6-2Khz due to an internal cavity resonance.

    What you end up with is not a M19, but something different that you tune to your sonic preferences, and can be returned to stock very easily if need be.

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    Senior Member Altec Best's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Jones View Post
    but be aware there is a slight suck out in the response of the TADs around 1.6-2Khz due to an internal cavity resonance.
    @Steve My suggestion was to do the X-over Upgrade first as it maybe enough,Trying to save him some cash it may not be necessary to change the drivers as the difference is great,the beauty is he can always change the drivers after the upgrade if he is not satisfied.The bypass and changing the caps and resistors and cleaning of the L-pads made such a tremendous difference I can't stress or recommend it enough.Model 19's haven't been made in decades so the X-overs rebuilds should be the first thing that is done to them.

    @Don They are the rivets that hold the bars to the aluminum plate there are 4 of them 2 on each side.I'll see if I can throw together a diagram for you.
    "James B. Lansing" = Lansing Manufacturing ~ Altec Lansing ~ JBL

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    Quote Originally Posted by Altec Best View Post
    The bypass and changing the caps and resistors and cleaning of the L-pads made such a tremendous difference I can't stress or recommend it enough.
    Obviously.

    It's all a matter of preference. I for one do-not-at-all like metalized polyprop caps, especially Solens. YMMV.

    The TAD TD-2001 plays in another league compared to the Altec 802-8G. If you've heard them as Don and I have, you just might agree. No amount of crossover tweeking will bridge the gap between these drivers. Its all about working to bring out the best that each has to offer.

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    Senior Member Altec Best's Avatar
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    Agreed ! What is it about the Solens that you don't like I think they work great in the 19 you are right about preferences though everything is about preference isn't it.

    Thank You about the compliment Steve on the Bypass
    "James B. Lansing" = Lansing Manufacturing ~ Altec Lansing ~ JBL

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    Thanks for all the replies. You guys have given me a lot to think about. I have to figure out which direction to go first. The TADs are already en route. I agree it is best to do one thing at a time and listen for at least a month.

    I think I understand what has to be done now on the bypass - basically just do a direct connection from wire to wire leaving the tabs out of the path.

    I like the idea of trying to open and clean the pots. As I mentioned, the only thing I could do so far was move the pots fully back and forth to knock loose dirt / corrosion.

    I'll be doing most of this when off of work in Dec. But I can order parts now. Maybe worthwhile to try both cap types - Steve: any more details or a link to thread on your parts change in the crossover and where you purchased? I think I can handle doing this myself. I have not done any soldering in 15 years but I rebuilt a harmon-kardon 730 and dyna st70 back then.

    I just saw CSN (for the umpteeth time) in Cleveland last nite. Great show. Beautiful evening. I don't go to many live shows any more in order to save my hearing. I don't need to play the Altec 19s too loud to get the big and good sound - which is one reason why I like them so much.

    Sincerely,

    Don

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    Senior Member louped garouv's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by donroth View Post
    I just saw CSN (for the umpteeth time) in Cleveland last nite. Great show. Beautiful evening. I don't go to many live shows any more in order to save my hearing. ...


    Sincerely,

    Don
    sorry to go a bit OT, but i've found this $20 investment to be
    amongst the best money i've spent on 'audio' gear recently...

    http://www.etymotic.com/ephp/er20.aspx

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    Quote Originally Posted by donroth View Post
    Thanks for all the replies. You guys have given me a lot to think about. I have to figure out which direction to go first. The TADs are already en route. I agree it is best to do one thing at a time and listen for at least a month.

    I don't need to play the Altec 19s too loud to get the big and good sound - which is one reason why I like them so much.

    Sincerely,

    Don
    WOW, Model 19,s using TAD compression drivers, once you get this system dialed in, the TAD drivers and their Be diaphragms are hard to beat.

    scottyj

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    Thumbs up

    Altec Best is right,
    Do the crossover upgrade first....you won't believe how good that 802 can sound.
    I used Solen Fast Caps (about $100) but with the difference it made I'm going to use Sonicaps....should be even better.

    You should try bypassing the MF & HF pots with fixed resistors. 10 ohms is equal to the mid in the "optimum " position & if you like the top end really bright, just connect the 2 wires from the HF pot together. This was a bit too hot for me, so I used a 3 0hm resistor (just right).

    I can say that you've never really heard the 19's at their best until you do this cap upgrade.

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    Quote Originally Posted by louped garouv View Post
    sorry to go a bit OT, but i've found this $20 investment to be
    amongst the best money i've spent on 'audio' gear recently...

    http://www.etymotic.com/ephp/er20.aspx

    Should have had these last nite but luckily was sitting mid section, reasonably center stage and thus not in front of the speakers.

  15. #15
    Senior Member Altec Best's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sootshe View Post
    Altec Best is right,
    Do the crossover upgrade first....you won't believe how good that 802 can sound.
    I used Solen Fast Caps (about $100) but with the difference it made I'm going to use Sonicaps....should be even better.

    You should try bypassing the MF & HF pots with fixed resistors. 10 ohms is equal to the mid in the "optimum " position & if you like the top end really bright, just connect the 2 wires from the HF pot together. This was a bit too hot for me, so I used a 3 0hm resistor (just right).

    I can say that you've never really heard the 19's at their best until you do this cap upgrade.
    BTW,are those 802-8G's for sale
    "James B. Lansing" = Lansing Manufacturing ~ Altec Lansing ~ JBL

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