Any problem with this Crown DC300A?

[BMWCCA]

I know you're an advocate of setting the gain structure, but when a guy says he can't get anything but weak sound out of a DC300A, and he has the levels set to 12 O'clock, my thought is that he simply needs to turn the dang thing up. It's not going to hurt anything to try, and if his amp still sounds weak, it's faulty.

But he was having wild, confusing swings that included trying it with the attenuators all the way down. That's not going to do much of anything.

On the other hand, if he can run the amp wide open and control the volume with the preamp just long enough to see that this amp should really rock his speakers if functioning properly, then he can go back and set the gain as he sees fit.

I just couldn't wrap my head around the "my amp won't get very loud, even though I'm running it at half mast" part.

I'll grab some popcorn if running it wide open doesn't get the volume level up.

I don't have a problem with a word of what you've said. I'm just sort of amazed that it takes a tutorial to use a simple vintage power amp properly, especially for an owner of 4343s. This is not the only time here, and certainly elsewhere, where the simple input attenuator controls have proven baffling for otherwise savvy hi-fi fanatics. I figured the "set the pre-amp at 3/4 volume and turn up the Crown knobs until the sound is at normal listening level" was fairly simple, too. I don't run any of my Crowns at full-open because it doesn't give me enough use of the pre-amp volume pot and can cause imbalance, as we saw in another thread. It's not "my way or the highway". All suggestions so far have been sound and helpful. It really is a very simple concept. Crank it up!!

And given that Crown is one company that goes out of their way to provide on-line forums, libraries of owner's manuals, and other good stuff for free, it really is a simple concept that shouldn't cause such confusion. If it continues to be confusing, I have a NIB set of dummy knobs in a kit supplied by Crown for installed applications that make it impossible to change the input attenuator settings, once set. I'll trade the kit for a set of normal knobs!

RTFM comes to mind but I'm an understanding guy.

[pyonc]

Dear JeffW, BMWCCA, scott fitlin, HCSGuy,

I just want to thank you all so much for helping me out on this Crown issue.
Although what each of you explained to me varied a little bit, I'm happy to find that
all of you share the same solution bascially, and that's why I value this forum and your insightful advice.

This evening I tried to fix the issue, according to your suggestions, especially JeffW's.
I first turned Crown's both channels way up, then turned the preamp volume down all the way. And I played CDs, and listened for any sound: NO sound from the speaker, fortunately. So far, so good. Next, I gradually turned up the preamp volume to get the loudness that I want at normal listening level (ususally 11 o'clock position). Okay, when I turned the preamp volume up to around 11 o'clock position, with the Crown channels all the way up, I got almost the same level of loudness that I got from the other amp, Marantz. One thing I noticed was LP sound was a little bit clearer with Marantz than Crown, though CD sound was almost similar in terms of clarity and loudness. Maybe this subtle difference might be inevitable, given the different schematic and specs of Marantz and Crown, right?

Now, I'm going to biamp 4343 with these two amps over the weekend, as I've found out there's nothing wrong with this Crown. Thanks again to you all, valuable members!

[scott fitlin]

Once you have gotten level issues out of the way, you should hear distinct differences between the amps you mentioned. Me, being a long time Crown user and fan, I like the DC-300A, although the amp is an old design it still holds it's own today. However, the DC-300 does not produce the cleanest sounding midrange you could get, it DOES produce great sounding bass, though. I have heard the Adcom 555 MANY times, it was never one of my favorites, others love it, though. Marantz amps, they are prized for their particular sonic character, as you can see on ebay auctions and what vintage Marantz amps go for. This is an area you have to decide for yourself what you like best, there is no right or wrong, just what YOU like listening to.

[pyonc]

Once you have gotten level issues out of the way, you should hear distinct differences between the amps you mentioned. Me, being a long time Crown user and fan, I like the DC-300A, although the amp is an old design it still holds it's own today. However, the DC-300 does not produce the cleanest sounding midrange you could get, it DOES produce great sounding bass, though. I have heard the Adcom 555 MANY times, it was never one of my favorites, others love it, though. Marantz amps, they are prized for their particular sonic character, as you can see on ebay auctions and what vintage Marantz amps go for. This is an area you have to decide for yourself what you like best, there is no right or wrong, just what YOU like listening to.

Thanks again for your kind comment, Scotty. I've heard, too, that Crown produces great bass sound. I think I'm going to use this Crown for bass on my 4343, with Marantz taking charge of mid and high ranges when I biamp over the weekend. Hope I can love this Crown as much as you in the days ahead...

[scott fitlin]

Thanks again for your kind comment, Scotty. I've heard, too, that Crown produces great bass sound. I think I'm going to use this Crown for bass on my 4343, with Marantz taking charge of mid and high ranges when I biamp over the weekend. Hope I can love this Crown as much as you in the days ahead...

Your welcome. BTW, Crown on the low end, and your Marantz on the mid/hi, that is a combination I could get with.

If you decide to go this route, what active crossover do you have or are you planning to use? THIS is also an area you ask a question and get twenty five different answers, but you will get tons of usefule and helpful info on active XO!

[pyonc]

Your welcome. BTW, Crown on the low end, and your Marantz on the mid/hi, that is a combination I could get with.

If you decide to go this route, what active crossover do you have or are you planning to use? THIS is also an area you ask a question and get twenty five different answers, but you will get tons of usefule and helpful info on active XO!

Actually, the active crossover I've got now is Behringer CX2300, which our kind senior member PaulB offered me for a trial the other day. Are you familiar with this one? Any advice would welcome. Thanks again.

[scott fitlin]

Actually, the active crossover I've got now is Behringer CX2300, which our kind senior member PaulB offered me for a trial the other day. Are you familiar with this one? Any advice would welcome. Thanks again.

I'm not familiar with that particular Behringer model, but it will work, and serve as an entry level unit to the world of biamping.

Once you decide you will stay biamped, you have to know that the active crossover has much influence on the sound, as much as your amps, and even the speakers. At that point, you could seek out a far better performer than Behringer.

You have great speakers, great vintage amps, so GREAT active crossovers, to get the best you can from your set up will be equally important.

[pyonc]

I'm not familiar with that particular Behringer model, but it will work, and serve as an entry level unit to the world of biamping.

Once you decide you will stay biamped, you have to know that the active crossover has much influence on the sound, as much as your amps, and even the speakers. At that point, you could seek out a far better performer than Behringer.

You have great speakers, great vintage amps, so GREAT active crossovers, to get the best you can from your set up will be equally important.

I see. I've read some threads on this in this forum. Do you have any specific GREAT active crossovers in mind? How about Ashly XR-1001? How does this impact on sound vary from one brand to another? As I'm new to this biamping world, I still need some more homework to do. Thanks.

[louped garouv]

I'm not familiar with that particular Behringer model, but it will work, and serve as an entry level unit to the world of biamping.

Once you decide you will stay biamped, you have to know that the active crossover has much influence on the sound, as much as your amps, and even the speakers. At that point, you could seek out a far better performer than Behringer.

You have great speakers, great vintage amps, so GREAT active crossovers, to get the best you can from your set up will be equally important.

i agree with you on this point Scott... I too think that the crossover stage has significant influence....

I see. I've read some threads on this in this forum. Do you have any specific GREAT active crossovers in mind? How about Ashly XR-1001? How does this impact on sound vary from one brand to another? As I'm new to this biamping world, I still need some more homework to do. Thanks.

before you get all wild about swapping gear, try the Behringer you have for a bit...

if you can, adjust the crossover points, and slope of the crossover...
(but do so 'safely' -- so nothing gets broken/damaged)

it may be a real eye-opener regarding just how much influence the crossover has on the overall presentation fo sound...

I did that with an old 70s era Pioneer SF series crossover a few year ago, really made me reconsider some things I was doing....

[pyonc]

i agree with you on this point Scott... I too think that the crossover stage has significant influence....



before you get all wild about swapping gear, try the Behringer you have for a bit...

if you can, adjust the crossover points, and slope of the crossover...
(but do so 'safely' -- so nothing gets broken/damaged)

it may be a real eye-opener regarding just how much influence the crossover has on the overall presentation fo sound...

I did that with an old 70s era Pioneer SF series crossover a few year ago, really made me reconsider some things I was doing....

Thanks for your advice. Let me try with the Behringer first for a taste of this biamping.
Looks like most of LH members here praise Ashly XR1001 a lot, which I want to try after this Behringer.

[Tim Rinkerman]

Now that you say you are going to put a Behringer product inline, you should have a good reference for "broken" sounding....

[louped garouv]

Now that you say you are going to put a Behringer product inline, you should have a good reference for "broken" sounding....

the way i see it, its a good opportunity to try out a new way of doing things...
and not too expensive an opportunity either...

[scott fitlin]

Now that you say you are going to put a Behringer product inline, you should have a good reference for "broken" sounding....

Let him learn his way through bi-amping. Once PYONC has established the benefits of bi-amping, and IF he wants to, he can go further and get into higher level gear.

My personal recommendation at this time, is Marchand, they will make you whatever you desire, you can order completely assembled or kit form, I like this over Ashly considerably. I use customized Marchands in my system, they are clean, and GREAT sounding. The Ashly is ok, but I prefer my crossover slopes shallower than 24db per octave.

When your ready, and IF you want, there are many here including myself who can guide you to getting a really good active xover, with the proper voltage drives, filter types and slopes, and correct setup and use. Not only that, the reason I recommend Marchand besides being REALLY good sounding, and the fact that Phil Marchand will custom build to suit whatever needs you have, the COST, they are reasonably priced, and work extremely well.

I have a VERY expensive pair of Bryston 10B active xovers, and I prefer my Marchand units. Phil has many models to choose from, even a premium vacuum tube active crossover.

If nothing else, here is good reading, and good info to really begin educating yourself to active electronics>>>> www.marchandelec.com.

[PaulB]

LOL... Yowzaaaa I forgot how tough the critiques here are :P

I've ran those 4343's biamped for many years, with dual DC300As, using a Levinson (bought from Mark, a personal acquaintance), a quite nice Heathkit that I modded myself for the proper Xover, and the Behringer... hmmm, I think I'm forgetting one :S

Anyway, I loaned him the Behringer (actually I think I offered it for free, as I have no use for it), so he could stick a toe in the biamping waters and sort out his other issues. It will serve him just fine as a starter unit... IMHO the last thing he needs right now is another variable to get all befuddled over. I will now don my asbestos U trou

[pyonc]

LOL... Yowzaaaa I forgot how tough the critiques here are :P

I've ran those 4343's biamped for many years, with dual DC300As, using a Levinson (bought from Mark, a personal acquaintance), a quite nice Heathkit that I modded myself for the proper Xover, and the Behringer... hmmm, I think I'm forgetting one :S

Anyway, I loaned him the Behringer (actually I think I offered it for free, as I have no use for it), so he could stick a toe in the biamping waters and sort out his other issues. It will serve him just fine as a starter unit... IMHO the last thing he needs right now is another variable to get all befuddled over. I will now don my asbestos U trou

Thank you, Paul, for your kindness and consideration for this novice audiophile.
I'm still reading this Behringer manual before I start the set-up, but let me try biamping anyway to feel any difference. I'm going to stick to Behringer until I gain more confidence and knowledge in this biamping world, though I don't have any problem with the wonderful sound of 4343 in a single amp mode.