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    RIP 2014 Ken Pachkowsky's Avatar
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    Some thoughts on Deqx and their products

    Hi all

    I have been using both single and dual Deqx systems for several years now. I recently upgraded to the HD3 series including the transformer balanced output boards.
    I have learned several things along the way and wanted to share them with you. The following opinion(s) are mine and may not be that of others. If I am wrong in anything I state as fact...please feel free to correct me. I was wrong once before

    First and foremost...never buy a modified Deqx without talking to their USA Distributor about the mod’s that were done! There are serious timing issues with different through-hole components being used on a surface mount PCB. Stacked op amps combined with exposed wire to connect them act like radio antennae introducing all kinds of hash into each channel. Let’s move on.

    Although a believer in the Deqx technology, I find the company itself to be somewhat arrogant and self- serving. They seem to have a marginal sense of responsibility for after-sale service, the current manual is a joke. In no discernible way does it describe how to properly setup or use this valuable tool. It is the embodiment of a poorly written instruction manual. The arrogance is in the fact that they are aware of it's shortcomings but choose not to do anything about it.
    Why is that? Read on...

    The DIY Market....Not?

    The Deqx was never intended to be a DIY product? I have been told they dislike that it is. It was designed by the same people who designed the Dolby Lake Contour. The two products are similar. The Dolby was for the Pro Sound Market and the Deqx for the OEM Speaker Manufacturing Market. It was designed by engineers for engineers. That being said, it would not surprise me if the DIY market has kept them solvent while they continue to court the OEM's. The company will sell to the DIY market, as evidenced by looking at their website, but appear to have minimal interest in supporting it. Hence, the self- serving comment. Common guys, commission someone to create a usable instruction manual. You owe it to us.

    A company that will not fully support all customer(s), regardless of type will inevitably drop the ball with everyone. Perhaps that's the reason the couple of collaborations we have seen with Deqx and OEM's seem to have fizzled? Perhaps a corporate attitude is to blame? I am sure it’s not the product.

    The product itself…

    I and others on this forum have invested countless hours into tweaking a Deqx setup. I would bet most Deqx owners have never heard their system with the Deqx properly tuned? It's only in the last year that I met someone who has an intimate working knowledge of the Deqx Architecture and Software well enough to set it up properly. We setup an internet client so he could take over my pc remotely. I simply setup the microphone where I was told. In a few hours he had it sounding better than it ever had. I wish you could all be here to hear the difference.

    I was so impressed with what he had done I arranged an audition of the HD3 system at Westlake Audio. Both of us met in LA and spent 2 days at Westlake Audio. To say the techs at Westlake were impressed is an understatement. For the demo a miss-matched pair of LC8.1’s combined with a Westlake custom subwoofer system were placed in the sound room. A series of measurements were taken and custom correction filters were created with the Deqx software. The correction filters had illiminated the miss-match problem. We then created a set of three room correction filters, each using slightly different crossover points. These were merged with the correction filters and stored in three different profiles. During the listening tests we could switch between the profiles by selecting each one with one click of the remote. The Westlake techs were astonished, stating the system was sounding as good as or better than anyone heard before. This is no small feat. Tuning a Westlake system normally takes several weeks with constant hardware tweaks being done to the passive internal networks. Dozens of man hours go into this process.

    The fellow who did the setup understands the nuances of the Deqx software and interprets the resulting data “differently” than anyone else I have seen. The subsequent filters he builds are truly amazing and certainly show what this tool is capable of when used properly.
    For those of you that have owned and already have disposed of a Deqx (I know there are many) it’s unfortunate.

    For those that have not tried one....go for it....but only if you’re prepared to spend a few hundred bucks setting it up right. I promise you will not regret it.

    I would be happy to share the gentleman's contact info on a person to person basis. I don't think I should be posting his name here.

    In closing let me say, in spite of disappoint with the company’s seeming arrogance and apparent lack of support for an important segment of their customer base, I do have a great respect for what this little box does. The looks on the faces of the senior tech people at Westlake Audio spoke volumes. I believe Deqx will get yet another chance to work with a world class manufacturer. Will they be up to the task? I certainly hope so. What a collaboration that could be!

    I hope this has been helpful to someone.

    Ken

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    Senior Member louped garouv's Avatar
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    I trust it will come in handy for some folks Ken,
    thanks for sharing....


    on a related note,
    do you have any experience with the Clair Bros. I/O frame?
    I believe it is a OEM, possibly the 'first' dolby lakes made....

    a fair amount of units on the 'bay right now...

  3. #3
    RIP 2014 Ken Pachkowsky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by louped garouv View Post
    I trust it will come in handy for some folks Ken,
    thanks for sharing....


    on a related note,
    do you have any experience with the Clair Bros. I/O frame?
    I believe it is a OEM, possibly the 'first' dolby lakes made....

    a fair amount of units on the 'bay right now...
    I have seen them on there for almost 2 years. Support for these versions would be impossible to find. I would definately shy away based on that fact alone. I have never used a Lake....but have been tempted due to the fact they support up to a six-way stereo system. Everything I have heard has been positive....although they are like the Deqx, a bear to setup. You have to use Smaart to set them up properly.

    Ken

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    Senior Member Ian Mackenzie's Avatar
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    Hi Ken,

    Sounds like its been a long long journey.

    Any crossover network beyond being used for the most humble PA system requires an knowledge of audio engineer and more specifically loudspeaker engineering to make it work properly.

    Any tool is only as good as the user as abserved from your recent experience.

    I guess you now know why NASA is not marketing diy rocket trips to Mars

    Good to see you are back on the scene.

    Hey, how about trooping over to Selenium and seeing if you can export from JBL drivers for us ?

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    RIP 2014 Ken Pachkowsky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Mackenzie View Post
    Hi Ken,

    Sounds like its been a long long journey.

    Any crossover network beyond being used for the most humble PA system requires an knowledge of audio engineer and more specifically loudspeaker engineering to make it work properly.

    Good to see you are back on the scene.
    To tell you the truth Ian I thought I had the Deqx(S) sounding pretty good till Larry did his magic. He took a great deal of time studying graphs before making changes. In many cases the changes were ever so little but with excellent results. I am pleased to say my Eq settings are minimum with no cut or boost exceeding a 2-3 db. When I run a room measurement the results are pretty impressive. I will post a current one in this thread if anyone is interested.

    I should also mention the HD3 series is a significant improvement in terms of overall sound quality. I am not suggesting that the 2.6P is bad...far from it but the HD version is a nice upgrade.

    Not sure I will be around much...but thanks for the hello. Nice to see you as well.

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    Senior Member Ian Mackenzie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Pachkowsky View Post
    To tell you the truth Ian I thought I had the Deqx(S) sounding pretty good till Larry did his magic. He took a great deal of time studying graphs before making changes. In many cases the changes were ever so little but with excellent results.
    I guess that is the point of your initial post.

    The mistake many people make is just trying to eq the reponse flat particularly in the crossover region without an understanding of what the bumps and notch's mean and how they go there in the first place.

    Often the apparent eq does more harm than good.

    Just reverse the phase of the horn to determine if the reponse was in fact summing at the crossover point or not. If the reverse phase shows a symetrical notch of 25-30 db then the crossover is working properly regardless of the in phase on axis reponse.

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    RIP 2010 scott fitlin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by louped garouv View Post
    I trust it will come in handy for some folks Ken,
    thanks for sharing....


    on a related note,
    do you have any experience with the Clair Bros. I/O frame?
    I believe it is a OEM, possibly the 'first' dolby lakes made....

    a fair amount of units on the 'bay right now...
    To add to what has been said, always keep in mind that besides these units having been there for a while now, they were in fact custom units for and by Clair bros. Clair has a great engineering dep't, and these units, IMO, are/were designed to be used with their speaker systems. And,this means you, with different amps and speakers than Clair had designed them to be used with and for, might not be able to achieve anything like or near what they are capable of!

    I think the current asking price per unit is $1490 at this time, very cheap for Lake, but also very expensive if in fact these units will not work properly with any thing other than what they are designed to have been paired with.
    scottyj

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    The fact that they are using more than 3 letters in their name makes them truly groundbreaking and interesting. Not many other manufacturer's have come up with a product worthy of a fourth letter....

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    Now thats funny

    Quote Originally Posted by Tim Rinkerman View Post
    The fact that they are using more than 3 letters in their name makes them truly groundbreaking and interesting. Not many other manufacturer's have come up with a product worthy of a fourth letter....
    Kudo's

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    DEQX Support

    Very interresting quotes about DEQX capability , provided you are lucky enough to be able to get in touch with them and have them help you ( you pay for that ) and get the best out of your machine . I purchased a DEQX HDP Express and only had the chance of beiing answered politely but not effectively .
    Regards

  11. #11
    Senior Member richluvsound's Avatar
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    I'm sorry you had that experience . I purchased a deqx unit and found them to be very helpful.

    Did you buy direct or from a dealer ?

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    DEQX web site etc

    Hello from DEQX,

    Thanks Ken for your thoughts, and my apologies for the missing historical data to date. To clarify a few issues mentioned here, our new web site remains under construction and legacy products will be listed next month. It hasn’t been a priority because the HDP-3 ceased production about eighteen months ago and the PDC-2.6 many years before that as you may know. A new FAQ will be going up next week.

    Since introducing the on-line DEQXpert install service we try to promote that vs DIY installs to avoid some of the issues mentioned on this thread. There is a recently revised manual but many installation issues (mainly getting the best measurement in an almost infinite number of scenarios) can't deal with all contingencies. The Lake box by comparison does not attempt anechoic measurement/calibration, so its much easier to write a comprehensive manual. BTW, I grew up next door to the late Bruce Jackson, designer of the Lake box, in Sydney. He helped me market Fairlight in the US in the late 70’s but was not involved directly in DEQX or Fairlight. Later, Lake’s founder Brian Connolly asked me to help them commercialise what is today called Dolby headphones (Dolby end up buying Lake). I introduced Bruce to Lake when he moved from the US back to Sydney. BTW, Bruce also founded Apogee Electronics that virtually wrote the book on digital jitter, which in the early days of digital was barely acknowledged.

    We do not actively discourage DIY’s from doing their own installation, but it does take up a fair bit of our uncharged support time. These days we encourage DEQX sales to include installation by the dealer/installer or DEQXpert online installation (from about $399), which is increasingly popular with existing DEQX owners and DIY customers. We answer many specific installations questions including from those planning to buy second-hand units. We also supply user manuals on request allowing potential DIY customers to understand the capabilities of DEQX in more detail and indicate the level of expertise required for DIY installation.

    To maximise the value of legacy designs we endeavour to allow backward compatibility of software features. Apart from audio transparency, I/O and other design improvements, recent products are similar or identical in functionality to prior models and we have traditionally offered an industry leading trade-in policy for DIY users wishing to upgrade; historically about 50% of original cost credited towards new models after four years for example.

    Cheers from Sydney!

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    You may access all previous versions of the DEQX website here:
    http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://www.deqx.com/

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    Post miniDSP low-budget alternative

    Hello,

    Have a DEQX PDC-2.6P and enjoy it very much, although still don't have it performing up to capability - that's more testament to the very high ceiling of performance, and the difficulty in getting good measurements to achieve that rather than anything else. That said, if I were to spill coffee on it, I'd probably look at the new miniDSP 4 x 10HD, which seems to accomplish much of the same utility sans the linear-phase (ie: perfect) speaker (and room) correction. Was recently released, and at a reasonable $500 price point: http://www.minidsp.com/products/mini...inidsp-4x10-hd

    Just my $0.02. The products are certainly aimed at different market segments, but perhaps for the weekend DIYer, the miniDSP would prove more appropriate.

    cheers,
    -Tal

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    Junior Member sunnysal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KimRyrie View Post
    Hello from DEQX,

    Thanks Ken for your thoughts, and my apologies for the missing historical data to date. To clarify a few issues mentioned here, our new web site remains under construction and legacy products will be listed next month. It hasn’t been a priority because the HDP-3 ceased production about eighteen months ago and the PDC-2.6 many years before that as you may know. A new FAQ will be going up next week.

    Since introducing the on-line DEQXpert install service we try to promote that vs DIY installs to avoid some of the issues mentioned on this thread. There is a recently revised manual but many installation issues (mainly getting the best measurement in an almost infinite number of scenarios) can't deal with all contingencies. The Lake box by comparison does not attempt anechoic measurement/calibration, so its much easier to write a comprehensive manual. BTW, I grew up next door to the late Bruce Jackson, designer of the Lake box, in Sydney. He helped me market Fairlight in the US in the late 70’s but was not involved directly in DEQX or Fairlight. Later, Lake’s founder Brian Connolly asked me to help them commercialise what is today called Dolby headphones (Dolby end up buying Lake). I introduced Bruce to Lake when he moved from the US back to Sydney. BTW, Bruce also founded Apogee Electronics that virtually wrote the book on digital jitter, which in the early days of digital was barely acknowledged.

    We do not actively discourage DIY’s from doing their own installation, but it does take up a fair bit of our uncharged support time. These days we encourage DEQX sales to include installation by the dealer/installer or DEQXpert online installation (from about $399), which is increasingly popular with existing DEQX owners and DIY customers. We answer many specific installations questions including from those planning to buy second-hand units. We also supply user manuals on request allowing potential DIY customers to understand the capabilities of DEQX in more detail and indicate the level of expertise required for DIY installation.

    To maximise the value of legacy designs we endeavour to allow backward compatibility of software features. Apart from audio transparency, I/O and other design improvements, recent products are similar or identical in functionality to prior models and we have traditionally offered an industry leading trade-in policy for DIY users wishing to upgrade; historically about 50% of original cost credited towards new models after four years for example.

    Cheers from Sydney!
    thanks for chiming in. I am unfortunately one of those who had a DEQX and sold it off when I decided that a tri-amped active system was too much for me and I could not get the results I hoped for form the DEQX unit. I remain positive about the technology and company however, because I strongly believe you guys have attempted to make a significant contribution to the audio industry. trail blazers always suffer a bit. Now that you offer the online installation it should make this technology more accessible for those of us who are not engineers. I may even try it all over again! warm regards from sunny El Salvador, Tony
    4311, Jubal L65 and Klipschorns in main system

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