Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 31 to 45 of 47

Thread: L250 -> 250Ti Upgrade and Differences

  1. #31
    Administrator Robh3606's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Rocinante
    Posts
    8,170
    At this point we are no longer upgrading the system but are embarking on an actual redesign.

    I agree with you there. I actually tried the 093 swap in a Jubal. And you know it sounded decent measured like hell. Network needed a redesign as you point out. Did a real hack job and used the 1/3 octave EQ to iron it out. Sounded better measured very good. Sounded better and more closely matched my mains. Left it there until I got my 801C coax center built. It is a viable swap but not a simple drop in. There are many driver combinations that JBL never tried because some flat out don't work or they are way to expensive to manufacture and sell mass market or the driver combinations were not available depending on the vintage. As home builders we are making a pair so we have the option to try almost anything reguardless of what the final cost may be. Lets hope we get lucky and find good combinations that do work well together. Now can our home brewed creations compete with the clasics?? That's a tuff one and without the real thing to go against?? I would like to think they can but it's kind of a arogant statement to make and at least for me I steal/copy and borrow as much as I can from the original designs. I guess as long as we are happy that's what matters. We may end up with a real winners and it's too much fun not to try.

    Rob

  2. #32
    Obsolete
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    NLA
    Posts
    12,193

    Re: Upgrading 250Ti's ?

    Original N250Ti schematic modified for biasing:
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    Last edited by 4313B; 06-20-2003 at 02:57 PM.

  3. #33
    Obsolete
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    NLA
    Posts
    12,193
    Well maybe arrogant is a bit strong. Let's pick on the L166 for a minute. That system can benefit from putting the transducers in a vertical array, or at least in an L112/120Ti-type array. There are little things that can be done to improve certain aspects. Others have pointed out various restructuring projects. The 4350/4355 for instance; Free the 12-inch 3-way from the dual LF and put them in a vertical array for home theater use. That's SOP for in-wall Home Theater installations and it sounds fantastic.

  4. #34
    Administrator Robh3606's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Rocinante
    Posts
    8,170
    "Well maybe arrogant is a bit strong."

    Yeah I quess it is just couldn't think of another word. You are right there are simple things like your example that can make a big diference. Nice work on that schematic. Just another example of what we as individuals can do.

    Rob

  5. #35
    Obsolete
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    NLA
    Posts
    12,193
    Yeah, without manufacturing and marketing constraints we have more options available

  6. #36
    Obsolete
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    NLA
    Posts
    12,193
    Originally posted by Don C
    How about swapping out the midranges for a pair of 093ti? i have been thinking of trying this.
    Don C
    16 months later...

    Update with info on "XPL250"

  7. #37
    Super Moderator jblnut's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Central Mass
    Posts
    900

    Many Months (years actually) Later....

    OK Folks, it's show time !

    I may be wrong, but these pictures would seem to suggest that I was able to commission somone on this board to design and build some charge-coupled, bi-wireable, adjustable 250Ti networks. I say commission because these are the work of an artist both sonically and visually. I just unpacked them and took a few photos as I was installing the first set in the right speaker. I ran out of time and energy before I could get the other one done so that'll be tomorrow night. They will need some time to break in and I'll need some time to get used to them before posting any meaningful impressions. But just from 30 minutes of panning the balance back and forth I can sum it all up in one word..

    Smooth....

    Stay tuned for more details as this story unfolds....
    Attached Images Attached Images     

  8. #38
    Senior Member Guido's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    2,503
    I know that style

    Looks lightyears better than my mess when it comes to building filters

  9. #39
    dieterj
    Guest
    How is the Soundifference against the original Crossover?
    Nice Solen Caps

  10. #40
    Super Moderator jblnut's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Central Mass
    Posts
    900

    Night and Day....

    Quote Originally Posted by dieterj
    How is the Soundifference against the original Crossover?
    Nice Solen Caps
    Thanks for asking - I had meant to post this last night....

    I finished the second speaker last night fairly late. I only had time for a few album sides and I had to keep the volume down (sleeping kids). What I can tell already is that there's a profound sense of balance that wasn't there before. The response is much smoother and vocals especially are much clearer. Remember I'm coming from original L250 xovers here (but I did have 044Ti and 104H already) and not 250ti's. I'm going to get used to the sound (1-2 weeks) then put the batteries in the upper crossovers. From all I've heard and read, this might be an even larger difference than what I just did. After a few weeks of that, I'll remove the "bridge" wires and use two amps in a bi-wire config.

    Overall, I am extremely pleased with the results. I listened to side 1 of DSOTM last night - something I've probably heard 100 times. I heard new things that I had never heard before .

    Whoever made these is to be commended. The guy who helped him on some of the details and - I'm told - might have worked as a loudspeaker designer at a familiar west coast firm is also to be praised. The knowledge and experience these guys have is truly priceless and we're all lucky to have their input.

    I've heard some outstanding speakers in my life, and I'm ecstatic to say that mine are quickly closing in on the best of the best. When I'm done with the changes in 3-4 weeks I think I'll finally be "there".


    I'll post some better pictures of the crossovers over the weekend...


    jblnut

  11. #41
    Super Moderator jblnut's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Central Mass
    Posts
    900

    More Pics...

    Well I tried to wait as long as I could, but I'm only human ....

    Yesterday I hooked up the batteries to get the benefits of the charge-coupled networks. I also removed the bridge wires and hooked up the second big yamaha. I have one amp driving just the LE14's and the other amp drives the top 3 drivers. Both amps are 260 w/c and seem to have "adequate" power .

    Please understand that I'm not trying to sound like a magazine reviewer here so I'll steer clear of the tired cliches you read in the audio magazines. What I can tell you is this - every free second I can spare I'm in there listening to them ! It's freakin' addictive now and it just sounds GOOD. The bass is clear and extremely powerful. The midrange is realistic instead of sounding like a speaker. Snare drums sound like snare drums and vocalists seem to hover in the air in front of the speakers. The high end is totally smooth and never harsh even at high volume levels. Someone said that it would be "staggering" and that's a good way to describe it. I'd love to hear a "stock" pair of 250ti's sometime just to hear the difference the charge-coupling makes. I'm sure the bi-wiring and second amp help out too (they did on my XPL's). All of my older nits about the L250 are gone. They sound the same (superb) whether the volume is library quiet or dance club loud. And the balance of the mids between the 104H and 1008H is so much smoother now.

    It's funny for me to go back in this thread and see my earlier comments. At the time I was very happy with the stock L250, but I couldn't forget the sound of those other xovers I had for a few days. Even though it wasn't a great matchup with the drivers I had, I knew the potential was there.

    Consider me one extremely happy owner of some truly "one of a kind" 250Ti's .

    Bravo Giskard !!!!!!


    Here are some better photos of the upper and lower xover boards....

    jblnut
    Attached Images Attached Images    

  12. #42
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Mass
    Posts
    107

    Outstanding!

    That is truly a great story with great results, and beautiful work. In my closet are the sacrificial 3107's with the hope that, some day . . . the right person will cross my path. You're a lucky man.

    chuck

  13. #43
    Obsolete
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    NLA
    Posts
    12,193
    I'm very glad you like them jblnut! It's always a bit risky doing custom work like that.

    They are indeed one of a kind. From what I understand the only other two pair of original 250Ti's that have been biased reused many of the stock parts - only the caps were changed out to Solens. I guess those boards ended up being huge triple deckers. I'm pleased I was able to make yours a bit more "friendly" - separating out the LP obviously helped. All your components are HUGE compared to the stock stuff - small coils, NPE caps, metallized mylar caps, etc.

  14. #44
    Senior Member B&KMan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    492
    Quote Originally Posted by Giskard
    They are indeed one of a kind. From what I understand the only other two pair of original 250Ti's that have been biased reused many of the stock parts - only the caps were changed out to Solens. I guess those boards ended up being huge triple deckers. I'm pleased I was able to make yours a bit more "friendly" - separating out the LP obviously helped. All your components are HUGE compared to the stock stuff - small coils, NPE caps, metallized mylar caps, etc.
    hi again Giskard, I continue my quest for build a best network as possible for my 4343 and thanks for your pict on tread "4343 crossover modified" ... I go here and find manys informations about biais charge. For more comprehension what is original schematic for compare your wonderful work ???

    Thanks Jean


  15. #45

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Can 250TI BQ crossovers be used on 250TI's?
    By Ezel in forum Lansing Product Technical Help
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 05-12-2003, 08:12 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •