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Thread: L250 -> 250Ti Upgrade and Differences

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    Super Moderator jblnut's Avatar
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    L250 -> 250Ti Upgrade and Differences

    Hi All,

    I've been gone for a while but I'm glad to see the forum is up and running again! Anyway, on to my questions...

    I was lucky enough to find someone willing to sell me a pair of L250's about 6 months ago. I've spent a lot of time now getting to know them and I must say they are quite an impressive pair of speakers. Not perfect though and that brings me to the point...

    Last week I stumbled across someone selling all the parts to upgrade an L250 to 250Ti on ebay (kinda surprised that I didn't read about it here first). Everything is included - both 044Ti's, both upper mids and both 250TI crossovers complete with the Monster Cable. It didn't reach the reserve but the seller and I reached an agreeable price, so the parts are on the way.

    I'm curious to know if:

    1) Has anyone here ever gone through this upgrade before ?

    or

    2) Has anyone heard the L250 and 250Ti and would be willing to comment on the differences ?

    I am hoping this upgrade smooths out the upper mids some, and takes care of the volume linearity problem my L250's seem to have. By that I mean that if I get the sound adjusted perfectly for lower volumes (using either the attenutators in the back or an EQ), it doesn't sound right at higher levels (too much highs, not enough lows).

    I'm also excited because the newer crossover allows bi-amping/bi-wiring. I was doing this with my XPL140's and it (despite my skeptical anticipations to the contrary) did make a noticable difference in clarity and soundstage.

    Anyway, thanks much for any responses. I'll be happy to post my results here if there is any interest.

    Craig (aka jblnut)

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    Re: L250 -> 250Ti Upgrade and Differences

    "I was lucky enough to find someone willing to sell me a pair of L250's about 6 months ago."

    Lucky you!

    "1) Has anyone here ever gone through this upgrade before ?"

    Yes, a few times.

    "2) Has anyone heard the L250 and 250Ti and would be willing to comment on the differences ?"

    Yes, I've A/B'd them. The 250Ti not only measures "better", it actually sounds quite a bit better as well. LF seems tighter, midrange a bit cleaner, HF and UHF significantly smoother with greater efficiency and lower power compression. UHF response improves, going from -6 dB at 18 kHz to -6 dB at 27 kHz. BIG difference if you listen to vinyl.

    "I'm also excited because the newer crossover allows bi-amping/bi-wiring."

    Sounds fishy, no biwire or biamp ability with the N250Ti. Are you sure someone isn't sending you the N250Ti BQ and a pair of 035Ti's instead of the N250Ti's and 044Ti's?

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    Super Moderator jblnut's Avatar
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    You are correct...

    Thanks Giskard - wish I'd asked here first....

    From looking at the pictures I can clearly see that it's a 035TI
    and not the 044Ti tweener. The mid is correct I think (104H-2).
    The crossover has me confused though - it clearly says 250TI on it and you can see the dual speaker wire inputs. Was this not the correct crossover for the 250TI ? It not, what was it used on ?

    And on a sadder note, how will the 035TI tweeter sound in there?
    Perhaps not as much (any) of an upgrade from the 044 that I have now ? I'd hate to do all the work and end up worse off than where I started....


    Here is the link to the parts...

    http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...gory=3276&rd=1

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    Re: You are correct...

    I looked at the picture and no, that isn't an N250Ti network, the N250Ti network is roughly two to three times that size. I wish I had a picture to show you but I don't

    That's not even the N250Ti BQ network.

    Another clue is the wiring, the original Ti series used color coded Monster Cable.

    The 035Ti is a very capable HF transducer. I'm not real fond of the plastic construction, but JBL loves it because it is relatively cheap to make, is highly linear from transducer to transducer, and smokes pretty much all previous designs, excluding the 044Ti.
    Last edited by 4313B; 06-09-2003 at 06:19 PM.

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    Super Moderator jblnut's Avatar
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    What is the network then ???

    Thanks again Giskard !

    Now the real mystery - what exactly is that crossover network
    and what was it used on ? It looks a lot like the one on my XPL140's, but of course those say "XPL140A" on them. It would certainly appear to be a 4-way crossover and it does say "JBL 250Ti" on it.

    Any ideas ? ? ?

    If it fits, I think I'm still going to do it. I *love* the high end of my 4410's and now that I just did some research, I realized that's the 035Ti in there. I know the 104H-2 will be an improvement over the paper LE5-11 so the upper mid swap is a no-brainer.

    It's just down to the crossover now....

    jblnut

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    Re: What is the network then ???

    Well, it's some version of the 250Ti network, I just don't know which one right now.

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    Senior Member DavidF's Avatar
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    There are two clues to indicate that the crossover is the "BQ", bi-wire capability and the switch controlled L-pads on the network. The prior ti networks used metal bars to connect the various combinations of attenuation. Beats me why it is not so indicated.

    Craig, I have to say it knowing you will find out eventually. The 104H-2 and the 104H-3 are not equivalent to the 104H used in all the Ti models. They are fine models, nevertheless, but just not the original poly cone model. The 104H drivers are available from Harmon at about $120.00 each with shipping.

    DavidF

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    David is correct, that network is the BQ version. My error was in thinking the BQ version had three switches. As David also points out, although the 104H-2 and 104H-3 are identical in function, the 104H is not.

    Send me a PM if you need 104H's.
    Last edited by 4313B; 06-10-2003 at 09:56 AM.

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    Super Moderator jblnut's Avatar
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    104H vs 104H-2 or 3

    Wow, I'm really glad I asked about all this now :-)

    Now that we're on the subject of the poly mids, what exactly is the difference between the 104H and the 104H-2/3 ? I have the -2's in my 4410's and really like the sound. What will be the problem if I were to use them in my 250's with the new crossover network ? Is it an efficiency or impedence issue ? Is it a frequency response issue ? My LE5-11's are probably the "tiredest" part of my system. The paper is discolored and I'm sure it's been affected by humidity over the years.


    I guess what I'm asking is this - will the difference be subtle (ie somthing I could equalize out) or dramatic ?

    Thanks again for all the info !!!

    jblnut

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    Re: 104H vs 104H-2 or 3

    The 104H has a filled polypropylene cone. The 104H-2/104H-3 has a felted paper cone. Electrically, they are pretty similar. Acoustically the 104H-2/104H-3 is slightly "flatter" in its response. Both transducers are + or - 3 dB from roughly 200 Hz to 7 kHz. The 104H has slightly lower distortion.

    I'd give what you got a try and if you like it you're done. If you don't, then you can get a pair of 104H's.

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    Administrator Robh3606's Avatar
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    Hmmm

    That crossover is the spitting image of my XPL200A networks. Same switch positions and high freqency contour switch other??
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    Last edited by Robh3606; 06-11-2003 at 06:27 PM.

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    Administrator Robh3606's Avatar
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    Not sure if this is what you had in mind Rob
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    Yes, thanks Rob

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    Super Moderator jblnut's Avatar
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    Angry Parts are here, close but....

    Well the parts arrived today. Here's the story...

    035TI - simply will not fit gracefully into a L250 cabinet. It's designed to be screwed in from the front but the 044 in there is anchored from the back. No real easy way to make this one fit - damn.

    104H - no big deal, easy replacement.

    Crossover - not exactly a great fit, but no too far off either. It will fit into the space where the attenuation "bars" are now with about 1/16 to spare on each side (easy fill with some silicone).

    So, my dilemna now is - where to get some 044TI's ? No sense swapping everything out and leaving the old 044's in there. Does anybody have leads/prices on what a pair of 044Ti's would run?

    Thanks again for all the help !

    jblnut


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    jblnut..Standard answer for 044ti is to keep your eyes on ebay for a while. I saw a pair go recently for only $50.00 for the pair. Not often will you find them that reasonable, but occasionally ?
    Good Luck
    Rex Mills

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