Fake 150-4Cs

[Harkness]

the things that looked odd to me are: the magnet finish is smooth, unlike any i've seen before. i guess these could be a refinish and a rebadge and a recone we're seeing here. i've never seen an ink printed serial on that badge type before. the cork looks brand new, and cork loses that bright look after some years. part of the basket looks painted over.

if it's genuine, i would venture to say it's a total restoration with the magnet and basket assembly being the only remaining original parts.

without seeing it person though, i would say it's nealy impossible to say for certain. the small thumbnails in the thread aren't enough to go on.

i've attached a pic i took ten years ago when i opened my C40 cabinets for the first time. Digital cameras are a lot better now, so the detail is a bit lacking..

again, i'm not insisting these one's of bob's are not real, but only they looked different enough to warrant discussion.

[rgwalker]

the things that looked odd to me are: the magnet finish is smooth, unlike any i've seen before. i guess these could be a refinish and a rebadge and a recone we're seeing here. i've never seen an ink printed serial on that badge type before. the cork looks brand new, and cork loses that bright look after some years. part of the basket looks painted over.

if it's genuine, i would venture to say it's a total restoration with the magnet and basket assembly being the only remaining original parts.

without seeing it person though, i would say it's nealy impossible to say for certain. the small thumbnails in the thread aren't enough to go on.

i've attached a pic i took ten years ago when i opened my C40 cabinets for the first time. Digital cameras are a lot better now, so the detail is a bit lacking..

again, i'm not insisting these one's of bob's are not real, but only they looked different enough to warrant discussion.

The cones were done less than three years ago and I've been in touch with the guy who did it and sold them to me. He claims that the frames are authentic and his Ebay feedback comments totally back up his integrity but doesn't rule out that he reconed fakes without realizing it.

I spoke with Steve Schell who also noticed the smooth cover and has suggested that it's a recondition job with possible aftermarket parts, including a repainted cover. I've got nothing to lose by chipping off a small piece to see if there's another layer underneath. We discussed the label and it's much more difficult to silk screen a couple of numbers than to stamp them and the cones would be easy to mark. It doesn't make sense as a fake but the recondition of an original 150-4C that's since been neglected would explain a lot.

Thanks for your input. This has been a good learning experience. I may have been duped myself but perhaps I can be a watchdog for others in the future.

Bob W

[Harvey Gerst]

Someone posted a comment here in a similar thread from years ago about having several pairs of 150-4Cs with no markings on the original OEM cones and another guy who worked at JBL and prepared the foilcals who stated that it wasn't totally unheard of for D130s to get 150-4C badges and vice versa. That's obviously not the case with mine but it shows less than perfect quality control and the type of work that some may mistake for being redone may be factory original.from spare and aftermarket parts or authentic from the frame up and simply reconed. It's definitely getting interesting.

Bob W

George Martin (Jim Lansing's brother) was the only person in charge of putting foilcals on speakers, and recording that serial number in a book he kept at his bench. In my 8 years of working at JBL (a lot of that time as head of Quality Control), I never saw George make a mistake on labeling a speaker - ever!! The idea of George mislabeling a D130 as a 150-4C is ludicrous - we didn't make that many 150-4C's per month, so it would be pretty obvious to everybody if it was mislabeled. The only places we used 150-4C's were in Hartsfields, early Paragons, and the big theater bins; a much smaller market than cabinets designed for the home market, which used the D130's and 130A's.

The D130's and 130A's used a light curved cone, while the 150-4C used a heavy, straight-sided cone. The D130 had an aluminum dome; the 150-4c had a paper dome. The surround rolls were different on the 150-4C, and oh yeah, the 150-4C extender ring would have been a dead giveaway.

The pictures Bob posted show 150-4C's that may have been reconed and repainted, but they looks genuine to me.

[rgwalker]

George Martin (Jim Lansing's brother) was the only person in charge of putting foilcals on speakers, and recording that serial number in a book he kept at his bench. In my 8 years of working at JBL (a lot of that time as head of Quality Control), I never saw George make a mistake on labeling a speaker - ever!! The idea of George mislabeling a D130 as a 150-4C is ludicrous - we didn't make that many 150-4C's per month, so it would be pretty obvious to everybody if it was mislabeled. The only places we used 150-4C's were in Hartsfields, early Paragons, and the big theater bins; a much smaller market than cabinets designed for the home market, which used the D130's and 130A's.

The D130's and 130A's used a light curved cone, while the 150-4C used a heavy, straight-sided cone. The D130 had an aluminum dome; the 150-4c had a paper dome. The surround rolls were different on the 150-4C, and oh yeah, the 150-4C extender ring would have been a dead giveaway.

The pictures Bob posted show 150-4C's that may have been reconed and repainted, but they looks genuine to me.

Harvey: Thank you. I really appreciate the insight. I've offered the speakers to the original bidder for a good price and we're both happy. I might have gotten a few dollars more by listing them on Ebay again but I didn't lose much and I've gained some knowledge and experience.

I apologize for any slight against JBL but I've been clutching at straws and looking for any and all excuses for the condition of these speakers and most of what's out there is based on speculation and inuendo. I did see an old post from someone about the foilcals and no one here knows better than you what really went on but it seemed to fit and was never challenged so I used it in my hypothesis.

Bob W