Originally Posted by Robh3606
That's not the point. The point is to get them on stands off the floor. Try them on the short stands you have the 300's on. I have my 4344's on 1 ft stands and it makes a big difference.
Rob
I don't have those on stands. Those are hollow bases.
So try your hollow bases with them. Target is raised off the floor. Semantics of Base vs Stand simply not important.I don't have those on stands. Those are hollow bases.
Rob
"I could be arguing in my spare time"
It'd be good to try, as I've certainly never heard anything but positives here in doing so.
Right now, I find I just end up slouching in my seat
So try your hollow bases with them. Target is raised off the floor. Semantics of Base vs Stand simply not important.
Rob
No, you missed the point. Those are physically part of the speakers and open to the insides of the cabinets. As I've noted in the past, those speakers have had their internal volumes increase by ~3/4 cu ft. which should make them about the same as an L300's internal volume.
I would need top raise them on something else. But then there is also the WAF to contend with. As I said, I would bet that very few actually raise these and most listen at their "stock" placement.
Also if you raise them, unless you angle them down, you've changed the horn position relative to the ear. If JBL thought they should be raised, why didn't they provide/suggest an optional, angled stand?
Right now, I find I just end up slouching in my seat
These look nice but I bet they are pricey
Rob
"I could be arguing in my spare time"
I had a pair and they sounded better being 4 - 6" off the ground.
A tighter bass than when placed directly on the ground where tended to sound more bloated. Also, I have a small listening space if that helps any!
Ron
JBL Pro for home use!
Bloated = Tubby
I would rather have less bass and have it clean, than bass that is not clean.
My love affair with the 2235 driver ended years ago and since then I am happy with really clean midbass that the 2226 delivers even if it does not reach much below 50hz.
In my system, the room gain gives usable below 40hz that is satisfying with the music I listen to that contains very little below 40hz.
Sometime in the future if I were to economically obtain a nice pair of 2234's, I would be temped to try them out as I think they may play the way I like.
Ron
JBL Pro for home use!
Hey I remember that room, It sounded very good even if it was small
Where does it say in the 4430-35 user manual that these were designed to be soffit mounted? I really doubt that JBL did their voicing on these systems by placing them in soffit's.Thats not how they were intended to be mounted. Almost all of the large format monitors were soffit mounted or raised so the HF drivers were are at or above ear level. None of those systems should be set up with woofers on the floor. They all benefit from having the woofers raised up a bit. Even a foot helps.
Rob
JBL designed these as Studio Monitors so their professional application was in control rooms or the actual studio. Most were used for monitoring live or replay audio so mostly nearfield monitoring. Since most studio control rooms have big mixing desks, placement on the floor or aside the desk would give really lousy placement or acoustics leading to poorly placed soundstage and midrange dispersion. And they're too big to put on top of the mixer desk like the small monitors with 8" or less woofers.Where does it say in the 4430-35 user manual that these were designed to be soffit mounted? I really doubt that JBL did their voicing on these systems by placing them in soffit's.
Most all studios then mounted their large SPL monitors in the walls or soffits to provide a clear unobstructed path to the recording engineers and clients. The soffit mounting provides for flush wall mounting (ultimate infiinite baffle) which minimizes boundary reinforcement from floor or ceiling or side walls which leads to bloated or excessive bass, especially with the dual woofer systems like the 4435/TAD or Augsperger monitors. It also allows the BiRadial horns to work into a much larger space.
Key also is most all studios are specifically acoustically treated to reduce excessive reflection and the whole speaker system/room is equalized to provide the desired response, acoustic or power. If any anomalies appear, they are worked over with EQ, placement, or other means.
In Todd's case, the bass likely is tubby due to floor reinforcement. The base on the 4430/4435 is something that the speaker sits on but in my experience, most 4430/4435's are soffit mounted and the bases are superfluous in that application. Even in the main studio of 4 studios I've seen, the 4435's are soffit mounted instead of being on the floor, partly for frequency and strict control of placement, and likely to save space.
Why doesn't the L200 mod to L300 sound that way? It was designed to be used as a home consumer floor monitor. It is set up to work primarily on the floor. The pro 4333/A is designed to work better in a soffit but can also work as a floor monitor in a pinch but was used in a studio era when acoustically EQing the room/monitor wasn't as feasible or scientific.
The original L200/4320 monitor sounded like crap partly due to the use of the 4320 parts in a floor monitor. If you look where most 4320s were mounted at Capital Records (who requested the design), you'll see they were all mounted up high. Granted this was the 60's but they didn't use them on the floor, they don't sound that good there.
Certainly, WAF is important, and the very nice room (I've been there) shouldn't be cluttered with all kinds of experiments. But a trial of a 6-12 inch stand could provide some nice data and listening experience to tell whether the 4430 likes to be a bit away from the floor. Otherwise, Todd would need to do what the studios do, EQ the bottom end so the floor boundary reinforcement is minimized and the bass is tightend back up.
Nice to have the 4430 Todd, I just think they could benefit from a bit more optimization like your L300's have had.
When faced with another JBL find, Good mech986 says
, JBL Fan mech986 says
I have only seen a few pictures of 4430,s in studios and included on equipment lists on studio web sites. Which to me sounds like they were not a hot ticket in studios but on the other hand, I have seen them in more bars and restaurants as well as homes than I can count. And the tag "Studio Monitor" did not mean much by the 80's. Every speaker coming out was tagged as one.
It might not have meant much to the average consumer but it still meant something at the AES:And the tag "Studio Monitor" did not mean much by the 80's. Every speaker coming out was tagged as one.
http://www.harman.com/EN-US/OurCompa...tions/4573.pdf
I hope my reposting this information doesn't offend you experts. I've used Harman's new link instead of the link here on this website.
The JBL Model 4430 was the most successful large format Studio Monitor JBL ever made. It was available for nearly two decades.
Yeah but you can bet that they are worth it. They won't have the beer rings on the tops or barf stains on the grilles like you'll find here in the States.These look nice but I bet they are pricey
So the article and others simply confirm what I've said all along.
The L300 tweeter has a more effortless high end extension.
The 4430s present better imaging/sound stage.
Placed on the floor, the 4430s tend to be a bit heavy in the upper bass region.
So what's the problem here?
Well that's the point, not to place them that way. That's what I was getting at. You can make them sound better using short stands like in the Kendric Sound picture I posted. You are making claims about how tubby the 4430's are and you don't have them placed as well as you could. People try to help you and you get argumentative and defensive.Placed on the floor, the 4430s tend to be a bit heavy in the upper bass region.
None for me, I always place my speakers to get the most out of them. What's the point of not setting them up if they don't sound their best?? Why bother??So what's the problem here?
As far a problem comparing the 4430 to the L300. You not placing them optimally makes any comparison between the two worthless.
Rob
"I could be arguing in my spare time"
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