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Thread: Mid-bass box & response dip

  1. #16
    Super Moderator yggdrasil's Avatar
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    Not much progress to report.. Got a little sidetracked - again.

    I have done some work on the active filter. Most of the PCB's have been etched, and I have started soldering on the power supply.

    I had to build a new Pre-amp in between. Similar modular approach as the active filter, with the same connector for the amplifier modules as the active filter has on the output modules. Actually the amplifier modules used in the pre-amp is borrowed from the active filter project.
    Johnny Haugen Sørgård

  2. #17
    Senior Member pos's Avatar
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    So you didn't had time to build and measure the midhorn yet?

  3. #18
    Super Moderator yggdrasil's Avatar
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    Nope. Not yet.
    Johnny Haugen Sørgård

  4. #19
    Senior Member pos's Avatar
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    Hi Johnny
    So what's up now?

  5. #20
    Super Moderator yggdrasil's Avatar
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    Slowly getting there(too much work and not enough fun this year). Top and bottom halves of first horn are ready. The size and weight are.... lets just say - they will be noticed. Probably january.

    I did get some work done on the new active crossover for this project. Actually have been burning it in since april/may.
    Johnny Haugen Sørgård

  6. #21
    Senior Member pos's Avatar
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    I bet it will be impressive when done, both visually and sonically
    Did you use the correct mmd for the TM1201 when modeling the horn in hornresp? (it is around 52g, not the 5g quoted in the official T/S)

    My system is similar to yours in concept (TL1801+TM1201+2450SL/Be on H9800, active filtering and hypex amp modules), but I use the TM1201 as a direct radiator only (and it is still a work in progress, like yours, sloooowly getting there...). I was thinking about adding a small waveguide around the TM1201 just to smooth the directivity crossover with the H9800, but this is already quite complicated to do (for me at least).

    I am very curious to see how your mid horn will turn out. Remember I still have some 2020H you can borrow if you want to try them in your horn

  7. #22
    Super Moderator yggdrasil's Avatar
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    Finally got one horn finished. A bit larger than what I visualized from the drawing. They are barely movable for one man, without the drivers.
    Attached Images Attached Images    
    Johnny Haugen Sørgård

  8. #23
    Super Moderator yggdrasil's Avatar
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    Some measurements

    These are taken straight in front at different distances:

    30cm:
    Name:  distance_30cm.png
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    60cm:
    Name:  Distance_60cm.png
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    1m:
    Name:  Distance_1m.png
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    Impulse response:
    Name:  Impulse_response.png
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    Distortion:
    Name:  Distortion.png
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    Johnny Haugen Sørgård

  9. #24
    Super Moderator yggdrasil's Avatar
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    Offset measurements:

    30 degrees horisontal offset at 30cm:
    Name:  Distance_30cm_30degrees_horizontal_offset.png
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    ~15 degrees vertical offset, at 1m:
    Name:  Distance_1m_25cm_vertical_offset.png
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    Johnny Haugen Sørgård

  10. #25
    Super Moderator yggdrasil's Avatar
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    Next step is finishing the second horn before final sanding and oiling. Hopefully it will not take as much time as the first one....
    Johnny Haugen Sørgård

  11. #26
    Senior Member ivica's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yggdrasil View Post
    Finally got one horn finished. A bit larger than what I visualized from the drawing. They are barely movable for one man, without the drivers.
    Hello yggdrasil,

    I am amazed when I have realized that You are talking here about the horn applied to the 12-inch driver such as 2202. I am not in the position to judge whether 2202 is appropriated driver for such loading, but anyhow there are lot of questions about sensitivity 'pairing" of the drivers, but I am sure that a skilful person who can make such horn, will appropriately tweak network too.

    I have one question, may out of the thread topic, but attached figure in #22 post here, has presented the box which I am dreaming:

    -2245
    -2202
    -2397 horn + say 2441
    -2405

    do You have any more words about your "old" box, any measurements, any listening 'testing', any ...., any ......, any .....

    Regards
    Ivica

  12. #27
    Super Moderator yggdrasil's Avatar
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    The old system has 2245's, 2202A, LE85 on small Smith's. The 077's are currently not in use. Rolloff starts at ~14KHz, and becomes significant ~17KHz, which is fine with me.

    Last iteration on them was re-voicing the LE85/Smith combo, lowering the lowest frequency output. After that iteration there was no longer any need for the 077. The process ended with charge coupling the network.

    Lately I have also moved them away from the back wall and raised them up from the floor, giving a much better bass frequency linearity.

    IMO the sound is very good and IME you chicken out before they do. Playing on them is simply fun and addictive.

    I have only 2 concerns with them. The first being that all drivers are in one box. The second concern is impulse response - which is not spot on through the frequency spectrum. I.e. the bass comes little later than the rest.

    The boxes have a footprint of 55x55cm, are 125cm high and the top is 55x50 cm. The dog box volume is ~30l, which in retrospect is unnecesary large.


    The above measurements of the new horn is with TAD TM1201, not the 2202A. Judging by a short session running this driver/horn combo, the TAD driver is ridiculously good.
    Johnny Haugen Sørgård

  13. #28
    Senior Member pos's Avatar
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    V-E-R-Y impressive build Johnny!
    Kudos!

    It deserve a measurement outside in an as near as an anechoic situation as possible (but I can understand how difficult it can be to move this beast).
    Your 30cm measurement is to close (especially for directivity measurements), and the other ones are blurred by the room.

    It would be very interesting to compare the frequency response (and directivity) of the TM1201 with and without the horn!

    With your current measurement we can already guess that you gain *at least* 10dB in the midbass!

  14. #29
    Super Moderator yggdrasil's Avatar
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    There are some measurements in post #10 flat on the floor.

    They will not be moved outside for measurements. Outdoor climate north of the arctic circle in winter is far too hostile for measurements..... Even summer is too hostile most days.
    Johnny Haugen Sørgård

  15. #30
    Senior Member ivica's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yggdrasil View Post
    The old system has 2245's, 2202A, LE85 on small Smith's. The 077's are currently not in use. Rolloff starts at ~14KHz, and becomes significant ~17KHz, which is fine with me.

    Last iteration on them was re-voicing the LE85/Smith combo, lowering the lowest frequency output. After that iteration there was no longer any need for the 077. The process ended with charge coupling the network.

    Lately I have also moved them away from the back wall and raised them up from the floor, giving a much better bass frequency linearity.

    IMO the sound is very good and IME you chicken out before they do. Playing on them is simply fun and addictive.

    I have only 2 concerns with them. The first being that all drivers are in one box. The second concern is impulse response - which is not spot on through the frequency spectrum. I.e. the bass comes little later than the rest.

    The boxes have a footprint of 55x55cm, are 125cm high and the top is 55x50 cm. The dog box volume is ~30l, which in retrospect is unnecesary large.


    The above measurements of the new horn is with TAD TM1201, not the 2202A. Judging by a short session running this driver/horn combo, the TAD driver is ridiculously good.
    Hi yggdrasil,

    Many thanks for short overview of your "old" system, especially about 'dog box' for 2202 size, for which I would expect over 20Lit would be OK.

    Regards
    Ivica

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