alnico/ferrite drivers

[scott fitlin]

I have no experience with the TAD 4003! I only know what you tell me, and that others say its good as well!

[Mr. Widget]

Originally posted by scott fitlin
... preferred the 4001, better upper midrange! But still i prefer the sound of the JBL 2441!



These days I say specs, schmecks, I use my ears! if I like it, I like it, and I dont care WHAT makes it do what I like as long as I like it!

I too have compared the 4001 and 2441 both on the same horn in the same room through the same system and came to the opposite conclusion! To my ears both drivers had a smooth sound, but there was just more detail from the TAD.

I agree completely the specs are frequently irrelevant.

Widget

[scott fitlin]

Originally posted by Mr. Widget
I too have compared the 4001 and 2441 both on the same horn in the same room through the same system and came to the opposite conclusion! To my ears both drivers had a smooth sound, but there was just more detail from the TAD.

I agree completely the specs are frequently irrelevant.

Widget

What horn are you using the drivers on? I tend to agree the TAD has an extremely high resolving capablity, but, for one reason or another, I find the JBL 2441 more fun to listen to.

Another thing Ive noticed, and Ill probably get shot down for this, but, I also feel the 2441 exhibits a coloration, albeit a musical sounding coloration, but a coloration nonetheless, that I find pleasing to listen to!

I definitely LIKED the sound of the 4001,s but I am not about to go out and spend that much on those drivers. I definitely DID NOT prefer the sound of the 4002. The 2441, well, yeah, there may be better, but from a musical point, they do something thats nice, IMHO.

On a side note, I have been playing around with some better cabling, and I am at a loss for how to explain why I hear differences. This one particular set of cables a freind of mine made for me and sent me from Japan, well, they bring out these minute details. The JBL 2441 holds up well, even today, and even one of my co-workers asked me if I had done anything to the system, he said he was hearing things in the recordings he never heard before! But I am able to get things out of the 2441 that surprises even me!

Believe this, when I purchased the TAD 4002,s I had EVERY intention of selling my 2441,s! Upgrade, top flight, top shelf. I was moving into the 21st century. I was quite unhappy over the fact that the 4002 wasnt what I anticipated it to be!

I will be selling off my TAD drivers this winter. If they fetch me back 80% of what they cost me, that will be the best sound the 4002,s ever made to me!

[Maron Horonzakz]

Has anybody figured out how the 5 slit phaze plug in the TAD 4003 works? The slits are straight although of diffrent length. The TD 2002 3 slit is the same design. Where as the JBL 475nd and 2450 phaze plug have a lazy S curve slit shape called coherent wave to keep things in phaze. It does,nt seem the TAD 4003 & 2002 keeps in step.

[Mr. Widget]

Originally posted by scott fitlin
What horn are you using the drivers on? I tend to agree the TAD has an extremely high resolving capablity, but, for one reason or another, I find the JBL 2441 more fun to listen to.

That would be this one.

All drivers have some coloration. While the TAD 4001 and the JBL 2441 are very low in their coloration, they each have a flavor.

I can certainly understand why you might like one flavor over another, however after one EQs the system to remove most of the coloration/character as I do, the one with the most detail really shines through.

Widget

[Mr. Widget]

Originally posted by Maron Horonzakz
Has anybody figured out how the 5 slit phaze plug in the TAD 4003 works? The slits are straight although of diffrent length. The TD 2002 3 slit is the same design. Where as the JBL 475nd and 2450 phaze plug have a lazy S curve slit shape called coherent wave to keep things in phaze. It does,nt seem the TAD 4003 & 2002 keeps in step.

I am currently listening to the 4003 on the TH-4003 horn. This combination is scary flat in on axis response. It is plus or minus 1dB from 2KHz to 10KHz. This is what I measured in my room with no external EQ and this is similar to what others have measured in their systems. If there were phase plug issues I doubt the response would be that flat.

That said, I have no idea what TAD is doing with their "subtle improvements to the shape and material" of their phase plug.

I hope to try out this driver on my horn pictured above. I have to finish my 1.5" throat adapter first.

Widget

[Maron Horonzakz]

AAAhhhhhhhhhh......A Smith horn 2397 variant. The sound of paradice. Didnt some one on this FORUM interview SMITH ?

[still4given]

Ooooooooooooooo, I really want to build a pair of those wooden horns. Does anyone know if there are plans for those?

Blessings, Terry

[boputnam]

Hey, Terry...

Since you weren't around for that period, here's a Link to Widget's Wooden Horns

They are beauties, and sound even better than they look.

[Maron Horonzakz]

You can buy them from WIDGET.. He makes them usung the finest woods. Just dont beg or grovvle.

[scott fitlin]

Originally posted by Mr. Widget
That would be this one.

All drivers have some coloration. While the TAD 4001 and the JBL 2441 are very low in their coloration, they each have a flavor.

I can certainly understand why you might like one flavor over another, however after one EQs the system to remove most of the coloration/character as I do, the one with the most detail really shines through.

Widget

You see i happen to agree with you, Mr. Widget, the 4001 on those 2397+ horns are actually superior!

But on my 2395,s I prefer the 2441! To both the 4001 and definitely the 4002!

Your wood work and choice of wood for constructing these beauts, is second to none, although I would never take a horn as fine as yours and put them into my commercial system! That would be a crime on my part, rather your horns are for serious studio or home Hi Fi critical listening!

But on that horn of your I can understand one preferring the TAD 4001.

[still4given]

Originally posted by boputnam
Hey, Terry...

Since you weren't around for that period, here's a Link to Widget's Wooden Horns

They are beauties, and sound even better than they look.

Thanks bo,

Those are beautiful

You can buy them from WIDGET.. He makes them usung the finest woods. Just dont beg or grovvle.

What I'm actually interested in is plans for them. I would like to do the woodworking myself.

I'm sure they are worth every penny the Mr Widget is selling them for but at that price I will never own any. Besides, I love to build stuff.

Blessings, Terry

[Don McRitchie]

Originally posted by Maron Horonzakz
Has anybody figured out how the 5 slit phaze plug in the TAD 4003 works? The slits are straight although of diffrent length. The TD 2002 3 slit is the same design. Where as the JBL 475nd and 2450 phaze plug have a lazy S curve slit shape called coherent wave to keep things in phaze. It does,nt seem the TAD 4003 & 2002 keeps in step.

The coherent wave phase plug was never really used to its design potential. It was developed with the intent of ultimately using a berylium diaphragm with these drivers. However, such a diaphragm was never put into production.

Differences in path length causes the wavefront to be recombined out of phase that can result in response anomalies at the highest frequencies. However, this is only noticable if the diaphragm is acting pistonically. If the diaphragm is in breakup mode, as most are at their HF limits, then the phase discrepancies caused by this mask any anomalies caused by differing path lengths. However, with since berylium diaphragms can be made to act pistonically to near the limits of audibility, the phase plug design again becomes an issue. In the 435Be, the smaller diameter phase plug means that even a straight path does not introduce differences in path length great enough to be an issue within their bandwidth. However, if JBL ever decided to develop a 4" berylium driver, they may look at this again.

With regards to TAD, I don't believe that their design specifically addresses this issue. I'm not sure if this is because they do not believe it is significant, or if JBL's patent prevents them from doing so. If I had to guess, it would probably be the former.

[Oldmics]

"Differences in path length causes the wavefront to be recombined out of phase that can result in response anomalies at the highest frequencies"


Enter the waveguide design of the L"Acoustics products.

In minimalist terms of explanation, a 1.5 horn entrance that wraps back upon it itself (similiar to a compression drivers phase plug) engineered to produce a phase coherent,flat response in the hi frequency realm.

Used in the V-dosc line array system.

Might be another path to travel-Engineering of the expulsion horn to work with the driver and all of the drivers characterists both positive and not so good to create the ultimate combination hi frequency reproduction device.

Way beyond the scope of my toolshed! But I"d like to be on the team.

Oldmics

[Maron Horonzakz]

DON...... If the 475.....2450 type drivers using coherent wave phazing plugs were really designed for Be .... Why the odd 2450SL powder coat aquaplas diaphram as used in the JBL K2 95000 ? What was that coating supposed to do. And why the smooth coat rather than the ribbed pattern?