Deleted!
Deleted!
Buy a Woofer Tester 2. This way you can test the T/S parameters of the ones you had reconed and compare to the generic cone's response.Originally Posted by dkalsi
The OEM parts probably are of higher quality, such as voice coil, etc. However, it sounds like a good way to learn. The WT2 will tell you if you got it right.
I had two blown 2204H's that needed reconing. Here in Norway, the authorized JBL service center quoted NOK 3420 pr. unit - that's about $545.
So I decided to try aftermarked cones, and do the recone job myself. I bought kits here: http://reconekits.com/jbl2204reconekit.aspx for $62/piece - plus air freight and customs, the difference is still about $420: to me, it seemed well worth a try.
The kits arrived - quality looking very good. Re and Le measured somewhat higher then an original cone (though not by much), Mms was about the same. My first reconejob went very smooth. Actually, it was quite easy.
But the newly reconed units measures very different compared to the original ones when it comes to frequency response, and the sensitivity is quite a bit lower.
IMO this is not good enough. My 2204's are still worthless. This is the last time I'll try aftermarket cones.
Inexpensive aftermarket recone kits will NOT work, sound or hold up nearly as well as the real thing. For one thing, JBL VC uses edgewound ribbon wire, many aftermarket kits use round wire. It is cheaper, but results in a lower sensitivity because you don't have as many turns of wire on the VC bobbin.
NON JBL recone kits have cones that are probably not made of the same materials as the JBL cone, and THIS will sound different. More than likely, not as good.
RELIABILITY and DURABILITY! A friend of mine used a NON JBL recone kit for a JBL 2242, and not only did it sound inferior to the JBL kit, during use, over the course of the first weekend in use, the cone split down the middle, literally cracked in half.
If one has TOTL JBL components, and something needs to be repaired, USE JBL and BE HAPPY and it will last as well as sound good. For home use, it is just as critical as pro, maybe more so. In quiet home situations, one will hear inferior sound quality, IMMEDIATELY!
scottyj
It would be a good exercise for you just to compare them, side-by-side - examine their physical characteristics. If you have the gumption, to do this, post some pics - I expect this will add to the experiences, above.
bo
"Indeed, not!!"
Deleted
I can understand the desire of wanting to learn how to recone ( somewhat ) .
Just be aware, that when using aftermarket kits, the odds are such that you will end up with a fairly useless driver .
The problem here is that you're not educated enough to realize that .
The other problem IMO is that you primarily want an education in how to save money not how to recognize the difference between good & bad drivers.
So, at the very least, ask the kit seller the following questions ( if you want to attempt to match JBLs' specs ) :
If the recone seller can't answer any of these questions with any accuracy ( apart from parroting " it's up to oem / JBL spec " ) then look elsewhere for a kit .
- (i) How deep is the winding of the voice-coil ?
- (ii) How many layers is the voice-coil winding ?
- (iii) Is the voice-coil wound with round-wire or is it edge-wound ?
- (iv) What is the Re value of this voice-coil ?
- (v) What "BL" product should one expect from this voice-coil ?
- (vi) What is the "MMS" value of the cone assembly ?
<> cheers
Deleted
wow. Tough room!
Thanks for posting those monikers .
An inabilty to hear a difference between stock oem and an aftermarket kit isn't a very useful test of a kits worth .
OTOH, having complete TS measurements can go a long way to obtaining an accurate picture of a woofers performance .
WT2 allows one to measure the TS parameters of woofers .
<> cheers
- Consider buying Smith & Larsons WT2 as an important first step .
- I figure it takes about a $500.00 investment to get a grip on these things .
- That $ 500.00 investment includes WT2, a USB soundcard with a mic preamp that has phantom power, a calibrated mic , mic cable & stand, and some free impulse testing software .
ps ; No, I'm not offended . I'm striving to make you ( & others ) aware of some of the consequences that you will encounter in choosing the path that you've mentioned you might follow .
I would expect genuine JBL recone kits to take a massive dump in price once JBL moves all production from Northridge (where people were paid a real wage, including benefits) to Harman's factory in Mexico which has significantly lower overhead...
To keep things simple - I'll stick to the original JBL recone kits and just have them done by a professional.
It would be nice to see the prices go down a bit though (<-- if it was possible to do so without losing jobs domestically).
Sorry dkalsi, that the thread turned on you, and I like your idea. There is always the quandry that an empty frame is worth $75, an OEM recone may cost $270, but put the two together and you have a used driver that will sell on ebay for less than the cost of the recone - not the greatest investment. Sometimes you'd be better off selling the frame and buying a used driver, except that you don't know it's quality...
Here is my opinion: An aftermarket kit cannot be a substitute for OEM unless it is made from all the same parts and measures the same - as JBL used to wind all their own coils, this is not likely. In the future, it may become a possibility. For that reason, if you are reconing a driver for an existing speaker, I don't see aftermarket as a good option. Yes, you could rework the crossover to compensate somewhat, but that hassle negates the cost savings. So if the sound quality is going to be different, is it noticeable? The difference will be more noticeable in some drivers than others - something like a 2121 midrange will be much more critical than a 2245 used for a subwoofer (unless the aftermarket kit is so off it messes up your alignment).
However, if you are doing a DIY design, you could design the enclosure and crossover around the aftermarket kitted driver. This might be appropriate for a driver like a 2226 that aren't collectible, so you're not really destroying much value. Also, if you are doing a DIY design, you could like the aftermarket sound better; implied in a DIY project is that you are designing for your listening pleasure, so a difference in measurement may be offset by the increase in your perceived sound quality - all speakers have imperfect frequency response, who's to say your imperfect is better or worse than the factory's? If it's DIY, you're the judge. Also, in the case of compression drivers, there are different designs that may improve on factory in some ways (see the Truextent diaphragm discussion).
In summary, I would stay OEM unless you're ready to redesign the speaker. My personal strategy situations like these is to buy a clean used driver and swap them until a NOS recone kit shows up on Ebay for $125 - I realize this take alot of patience, which is why I buy the used driver - you can turn around and sell it again in a few years if needed or if you get desperate and buy the OEM kit.
Hope this helps!
On the one hand that would be nice! On the other, I'm not overly excited by the prospect of a drop in price since a basic tenet of economics is that there's no such thing as a "free lunch." Those inexpensive recone kits would come with hidden costs.
Even if the quality remains high, I kinda wish they weren't moving production out of the country.
Likely, however, it's just what they've determined they have to do to remain competitive.
It is a part of our culture that most of us would rather eat cows that are diseased, pumped full of antibiotics, fed genetically modified corn and parts of other animals, and getting eaten alive by flies while sitting with broken legs in their own excrement--than to pay the ACTUAL price of a steak, which SHOULD be very expensive.
So if we accept that, then a company like JBL, who used to make expensive speakers and components of the highest quality for those who demanded the best--would probably not be long for this world if continuing to operate under that model without reducing the size of their company dramatically to cater only to a very small consumer base.
HOWEVER, there is evidence things are changing. Some segments of the "born 1970 and later" and certainly the "born 1980 and later" generations are, in small part anyway, starting to recognize that there is an element of "value" besides just a low dollar amount.
If you pay a cheap price for something that's so low-quality as to be virtually worthless, it's not a "good value."
So back on the recone kits-- I think you're making the right move. It's only a "good value" if it's worth something.
Based on what we currently know, that would be a roll of the dice in this situation, at best.
I'd have no problem using an aftermarket kit if it was TRULY the same. Competition is good. However, a big part of what makes JBL drivers what they are lies in the voice coil--and there's a lot that's unique and proprietary about that voice coil. Lose that, and you lose the 'heart' of a JBL speaker. Too big a risk!
I was being sarcasticIf these people are perfectly willing to screw over their fellow countrymen they certainly aren't going to pass any cost saving on to their customers...
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
