marantz receiver with JBL

[pyonc]

Hi,

Until I get a new gear of pre-/power-amp in the near future, I've been using Marantz 2330B (130W RMS power per channel) receiver for 4343 recently. The sound just seemd okay to me, but I was rather shocked to find there was little difference in sound quality or loudness between 4311 and 4343 when I hooked them up to the same Marantz source. With the volumn knob set at the 11 0'clock, I took turn in pushing the speaker 1 button (4343) and speaker 2 button (4311) for comparison of the sound quality, loudness, etc. The outcome is there is little or no difference between them, to my disappointment. I don't know why.
Do you have any idea on this? Can I get any big difference between them if I turn to pre/power amp instead of receiver? Thansk for your feedback and counsel in advance.

[cosmos]

Perhaps, you couldn't hear a difference at 15 db above the threshold of pain?

[jim3860]

It sounds like to me there may be an issue with the speaker outputs between 1 and 2 on your receiver, I would suggest hooking up the 4343's to the same outputs that you are using for your 4311's on the receiver the 4343's should smoke the 4311's on both SPL's and sound quality especially in the bass dept


.
REGARDS JIM

[Robh3606]

Well it depends on how things are set-up. There shouldn't be a big difference in apparent loudness between them. May be a couple of dB to the 4343 but that's about it. With the 4343 you have quite a bit of latitude in how they are voiced with separate attenuators on all three drivers. I have 4344's and I can make them sound like damn near anything I want just by adjusting the attenuators on the 3 top drivers.

If I were you I would do some searches about the 4343 and 4344 go from there. I would also see how the attenuators are set and start with them set flat with the compression driver down a couple of dB and see what happens.

I have always taken the position that these 4 ways are harder to set-up and balance in a home environment than most other speakers. From my point of view you should have some kind of rudimentary measurement system to balance the drivers in each cabinet and then in the stereo pair. There is a bit of slop in the attenuators and even being off a db or 2 between drivers in a stereo pair is going to screw up your imaging and potentially the balance in that speaker depending on what driver it is. They would have been better off using fixed stepped resistor attenuation as opposed to L pads.

You have to remember they were intended for a studio where 1/3 octave EQ was the norm and proper set-up was for all intents and purposes a done deal

Rob

[Mr. Widget]

You have to remember they were intended for a studio where 1/3 octave EQ was the norm and proper set-up was for all intents and purposes a done deal

...and the proper set up was usually done by a trained technician.

If you don't hear the 4343 as the clear winner, there is something wrong. Something wrong with the speaker. Something wrong with the set up. Something wrong with the electronics. Possibly all three.


Widget

[pyonc]

...and the proper set up was usually done by a trained technician.

If you don't hear the 4343 as the clear winner, there is something wrong. Something wrong with the speaker. Something wrong with the set up. Something wrong with the electronics. Possibly all three.

------------------------------------------------

Thanks, Widget. As I said, the sound from 4343 seemed okay when hooked to the Marantz receiver. So, I don't understand what you mean when you take issue with the speaker itselt or set-up or the electronics. Could you elaborate?

To repeat, when I linked the 4311 to the receiver (Marantz 2330B has one pair of speaker input terminals on the back, so I can hook up 4311 and 4343 to each of this terminal simultaneously) for comparison with 4343, I was very much surprised to detect little difference between them. Don't you think it has something to do with the source of the amp, namely Marantz "receiver" itself? Can I expect some tangible difference when I use a pre-amp and power amp for 4343 instead of this receiver?

[pyonc]

Well it depends on how things are set-up. There shouldn't be a big difference in apparent loudness between them. May be a couple of dB to the 4343 but that's about it. With the 4343 you have quite a bit of latitude in how they are voiced with separate attenuators on all three drivers. I have 4344's and I can make them sound like damn near anything I want just by adjusting the attenuators on the 3 top drivers.

If I were you I would do some searches about the 4343 and 4344 go from there. I would also see how the attenuators are set and start with them set flat with the compression driver down a couple of dB and see what happens.

I have always taken the position that these 4 ways are harder to set-up and balance in a home environment than most other speakers. From my point of view you should have some kind of rudimentary measurement system to balance the drivers in each cabinet and then in the stereo pair. There is a bit of slop in the attenuators and even being off a db or 2 between drivers in a stereo pair is going to screw up your imaging and potentially the balance in that speaker depending on what driver it is. They would have been better off using fixed stepped resistor attenuation as opposed to L pads.

You have to remember they were intended for a studio where 1/3 octave EQ was the norm and proper set-up was for all intents and purposes a done deal

Rob

Thanks for your comment. Looks like you're going technical here, which I don't dare to attempt it at this point as a junior in this field. My question is this, does it have anything to do with the source of the amp, namely "receiver"? What if I hook them up to a pre-amp and power-amp? Same result?

[pyonc]

It sounds like to me there may be an issue with the speaker outputs between 1 and 2 on your receiver, I would suggest hooking up the 4343's to the same outputs that you are using for your 4311's on the receiver the 4343's should smoke the 4311's on both SPL's and sound quality especially in the bass dept


.
REGARDS JIM

Thanks for your comment. But I'm not sure I'll have the different outcome because the source, namely Marantz receiver, is still the same. The speaker terminal inputs, one pair each, are on the back of this receiver. Currently, 4343 are hooked to the upper terminals, and 4311 to the lower ones. Let me try your way, though.

[hmolwitz]

There should be no difference between the speaker taps on the amp, I would look elsewhere for improvement.
Harry

[pyonc]

...and the proper set up was usually done by a trained technician.

If you don't hear the 4343 as the clear winner, there is something wrong. Something wrong with the speaker. Something wrong with the set up. Something wrong with the electronics. Possibly all three.


Widget

Hi, Widget,

Just take a look at this set-up on the back of the Marantz 2330B receiver.
Anything wrong here? Do I need to reconfigure?
For 4343, I use 14 gauge speaker wires, and for 4311, 16 gauge.
Thanks.

[opimax]

Where in Md are you? I am inside the DC Beltway, happy to offer an opinion...

Mark

You can send me a PM if you would like

[SEAWOLF97]

I cant tell from the speaker wires ...are you maintaining correct polarity ?

[pyonc]

I cant tell from the speaker wires ...are you maintaining correct polarity ?

Thank you, Seawolf.
What do you mean by 'correct polarity' here?
Could you elaborate for me?
If you're talking about equal length of speaker wires, I've made sure of that.
Also with respect to the connection of positive/negative terminals,
I've also made sure the speaker wires linked to their correct terminals.
I use 14 gauge wires for 4343; one is white and the other black (as you can see in the photo)
As the terminal inputs of 4343 are black and red in color, I connected black wire to the black terminal input,
and the white wire to the red terminal input. Is this correct? Do I need to connect the other way?
According to the current wire set-up, I don't hear any tangible bass sound from 4343 even with high volume.
I have no idea here too. I'm just a beginner in this audio world...

[Mr. Widget]

Thanks, Widget. As I said, the sound from 4343 seemed okay when hooked to the Marantz receiver. So, I don't understand what you mean when you take issue with the speaker itselt or set-up or the electronics. Could you elaborate?

It is possible your 4343s are not up to spec... might need new diaphragms in the 2420s or 2405s, might need recones for the 2231s or 2121s, or perhaps you have issues with your crossovers. Alternatively and more likely, the L-pads might not be set to the correct settings. Finally it is possible that your Marantz isn't working correctly so any speaker will sound off.

Basically what Rob was saying was that to get the 4343s to sound right, you really need to know what you are doing or be prepared to mess around with them for some time.

Now if by "big difference in sound" you meant loudness... their specs are only 2dB apart. The big difference you should hear is deeper bass from the 4343, a more dynamic midrange, and certainly a significantly greater range in the upper most frequencies.


Widget

[jim3860]

There should be no difference between the speaker taps on the amp, I would look elsewhere for improvement.
Harry

I agree there shouldndt be any difference But sometimes solder joints grow weak connections get dirty etc, I have been able to use certain inputs for example without issue but on other ones the sound would sound scratchy, cut in and out etc on older gear, It would within 15 secs eliminate that possibility without any cost, then move onto harder to diagnose and eliminate things. One thing I would do for sure is use the identical type and gauge of speaker cable to eliminate any possible differences there also.

REGARDS JIM