JBL under/over achievers

[SEAWOLF97]

was "talking" with another member about L26's and mentioned that I regard them as OVERACHIEVERs ...ie: better than the sum of their parts..

there is another thread about L80T's, which I consider "out of the box" as UNDERACHIEVERs...ie: not as good as the sum of their parts.

any thots ?

any other examples ?

[timc]

I see your point.

Basically you are talking about value for money (retail price). There are examples of both good and bad buys out there. Both past and present.

Personally I think that the K2/Everest II are amazing. They are REALLY expensive, but compared to other brands TOTL systems, they are dirt cheap, and IMO way better.

I mean...what would you prefer. A Goldmund or an Everest II?

Bad JBL's....hm. Not sure. I have not hear many of the vintage systems. But i guess, that if im honest, that the L65 Jubal, could have been better, considering the transducers used. But its not bad at all.

[brad347]

But i guess, that if im honest, that the L65 Jubal, could have been better, considering the transducers used. But its not bad at all.

I own a pair of L-65a and I might agree.

I like them. They sound nice. But if we were being very honest, the 077 is crossed over a bit too low in these systems. There's something a little inconsistent in the midrange, I think. Isn't the 077 crossed at about 6.5k in the L-65 and variants? It enters into its linear range round about 8k, correct?

BUT the L-65As I own are really nice speakers. I'm more than happy with them, especially for the $50 I paid.

But at the ~$1000 or even more they were fetching pre-recession? Not so sure.

[cosmos]

was "talking" with another member about L26's and mentioned that I regard them as OVERACHIEVERs ...ie: better than the sum of their parts..

there is another thread about L80T's, which I consider "out of the box" as UNDERACHIEVERs...ie: not as good as the sum of their parts.

Interesting. I am polar opposite with your thoughts. I think the L80T is a very good speaker and the L26 not so much.. Not to say it's bad, but I never really cared for the LE20/LE25 tweeters. In honesty, I like the L80T3 better than the L80T. In my mind, the 035Ti is light years ahead..

[SEAWOLF97]

Interesting. I am polar opposite with your thoughts. I think the L80T is a very good speaker and the L26 not so much.. Not to say it's bad, but I never really cared for the LE20/LE25 tweeters. In honesty, I like the L80T3 better than the L80T. In my mind, the 035Ti is light years ahead..

Is it possible that your ears HF sensitivity is down a bit ?? Many people describe the L80T as "overbright". I like the 4410 which has virtually the same driver load as the L80T...so I think we've determined that the weak point is the network....since Phil said his improved with the T3 network substitution.....but you notice that I said "out of the box" , not "after tweaks" in the original question.

[cosmos]

Is it possible that your ears HF sensitivity is down a bit ?? Many people describe the L80T as "overbright". I like the 4410 which has virtually the same driver load as the L80T...so I think we've determined that the weak point is the network....since Phil said his improved with the T3 network substitution.....but you notice that I said "out of the box" , not "after tweaks" in the original question.

Well, it's certainly possible.. I am 52 and have lived a fairly active life.

Interestingly, it's not the amount of highs, but the symballance that has always bothered me about the LE20/25. To me, they have always sounded distorted or harsh. Even during my high school and college years in the 70s spent selling JBL and other gear. Put a phase cap in front of them and it's much better. Is it me? I don't know, but it's always been my opinion... I didn't care for the decade series in the 70s and still am not a fan today. A couple months ago I sold a pair of L36 to clear space.. and still own L80T.. FWIW. I also continue to own Yamaha NS-1000, neither sound harsh to me. I am not insinuating you are wrong. We are just differing in our views.

[rdgrimes]

L86 = overachiever. I've yet to hear anyone who wasn't seriously impressed by these little gems. Much greater than the sum of the modest parts.

[SEAWOLF97]

I didn't care for the decade series in the 70s and still am not a fan today. A couple months ago I sold a pair of L36 to clear space.. and still own L80T.. FWIW. I also continue to own Yamaha NS-1000, neither sound harsh to me. I am not insinuating you are wrong. We are just differing in our views.

I also did not care for the L36 ...thot the mid was poorly done, and I am currently using some NS-690II's...the cheaper little bro to your NS-1000's.

L86 = overachiever. I've yet to hear anyone who wasn't seriously impressed by these little gems. Much greater than the sum of the modest parts.

agree there ....have a pair of L86 (with boxes) that I have to sell , tho dont want to ...just nowhere to use them.

[BMWCCA]

I see your point.

Basically you are talking about value for money (retail price).

I took it as more of just a disappointment where the expectation based on the components would be higher than the result, and vice-versa.

My list of over-achievers would have to include the L7, and that would make the L5 by default an even better over-achiever candidate!

Our little group of Mid-Atlantic noshers would likely all agree that the L1 is a heaping big over-achiever. And I suppose the L96 would have to be included as well, particularly when held up to icons such as the L112. Less is at least as good, and in some cases may actually be more. I always root for the underdog!

[Ducatista47]

Well, they did cost a ton new and the parts are nothing to sneeze at either, but the 4345 is an over achiever to my ears. If sounding better than the sum of the parts and positive synergy are plus points, the 4345 is a poster child.

The 2245H/2122H combo is hard to beat (does the 2245H have an equal anywhere for putting hi in bass hifi?), and the sound seems to come from one source. Not easy for a big four way. They don't image worth a darn, but the sound... It drops jaws every time and with every passing month of ownership appreciation usually deepens.

I am sure the Array, K2 and Everest II would blow them out of the water, but I'm not complaining. Have you noticed the 4345 holds its value? No wonder.

Clark

[Slare]

I'd have to vote for the L1. I dunno what it is about that speaker exactly but I've preferred it to every other similar two way JBL I've heard. L5's are also very nice but that's more of a value proposition than a sum of its parts type of thing. I also quite like the S38 / E50 type bookshelves as another configuration that just works.

All four are priced within the realm of pretty much everybody and I'd recommend any hobbyist pick them up given the chance, if for no other reason than to toy with. They are all pretty much fully depreciated so you are bound to get your money back or possibly make a buck if you snag the L's low.

[SEAWOLF97]

Thanx for the replies...most of you are getting the essence of my question....to put it colloquially, : who is punching above their weight class ?? (and below) ...this is NOT a quality or enjoyment rating.

from only the JBL's that I have personal knowledge of, ratings would be...

MORE than the sum of their parts: L7 , L166 , L26, L86, 4410

about what you expect for the parts load: L40,L56,L88,L100,4412, 250ti

LESS than what you expect for the parts load: L36, L80T, 4412

now some eagle eyed reader may remember that I once rated the 4412 & L166 nearly equal, with a slight nod to the Horizons..and now it shows waayyy different on the current list...remember that this list is "which uses its parts more effectively" ie: the L166 does slightly better than the 4412 with lesser parts. Yes, the 4412 is listed twice, having trouble placing it.

Now you might notice that the L26 & L36 are virtually the same speaker as far as HF and LF with the only difference being that addition of the mid for the L36...that indicates to me that the mid wasn't done correctly...also the 4410 and L80T are virtually the same driver load, but rate very different,, which I attribute to box/network differences.

[opimax]

I thought the 60t were poor no matter the price so I would rate those on the not worth it side

Mark

[Wagner]

L20T

Thomas

[jcrobso]

Overachiever!