Geez, who the hell needs TAD

[cosmos]

Anyone attending AK Fest this weekend in Detroit will be able to see these (pictured here under construction) playing with TrueXtent BE-4016 Beryllium diaphragms. Yes, I agree, they are smooth..

[1audiohack]

Wow are those hell for cool or what! If they sound half as great as they look you're golden.

[pos]

Has anyone compared the 2435H to these 4" Be drivers (1.5" or 2") ?
I am thinking about upgrading my 2435H to these (I already have 2452 cores), but will it be a significant upgrade if used in the 800Hz-10KHz (maybe 15khz) range?

[Robh3606]

Anyone attending AK Fest this weekend in Detroit will be able to see these

Hello Cosmos

Oh they look nice! What is that a folded bass horn or a reflex box down there?? How low do your horns load they look big in the pictures.

Rob

[cosmos]

Thanks for the kind comments, guys! I'll get some post construction pics up this weekend. They are Birch and Mahogany, braced well and heavy as a brick. A BIG brick..

Hello Cosmos

Oh they look nice! What is that a folded bass horn or a reflex box down there?? How low do your horns load they look big in the pictures.

Rob

Hi Rob,

The LF box is a bass reflex and will be tunable. It will be using Lambda TD-15X woofers, but I will be trying other woofers (E145, 2226, Lambda TD-15M and Tad TL-1601A) as well.

The horn design frequency is 248 Hz and is about 16" tall and 24" wide. I will be crossing about 600 Hz or thereabouts and running 2445/BE4016 on the HF side. Inspiration was K2S9800 (et.al.) TAD TD2401/2 type two ways. While I have tweeters to add in, I don't feel the need in the prototype setup. They are simply the best horn combination I have ever heard. Unfortunately, I haven't had some of the high end driver/horn exposure you guys have had, but they sound damn good. Hopefully, these will sound as good as the prototypes. I'll know if they do pretty well by the end of this weekend.


All the best.

Dan

[spkrman57]

I made a last minute decision to travel up to Detroit Saturday for a quick one-day trip with Joe who lives nearby.

See you then Dan!

Ron

[4313B]

If I wasn't busy building networks I'd go too but I just don't have the free time. Especially since the weekend after is a complete wash.

[cosmos]

If I wasn't busy building networks I'd go too but I just don't have the free time. Especially since the weekend after is a complete wash.

Yes, I know how things go, but you're so close and this show is pretty damn cool..

If you find the time to come, please introduce yourself. We're in room 235...

[JeffW]

An interesting JBL driver candidate for diaphragm replacement with Be would be the 2450. This driver was originally developed to accommodate a Be diaphragm as JBL was considering going head to head with TAD with that design. It was the reason for the development of the "Coherent Wave" phase plug. It allows for output from the diaphragm to be recombined in-phase at the driver throat in comparison to the out-of-phase output from a traditional phasing plug with variable length paths. According to JBL, it really only works with a Be diaphragm. The Al and Ti diaphragms are in breakup mode over most of their bandwidth, and as one designer said, are so "phasey" that there is limited benefit from the "Coherent Wave". However, a Be diaphragm, being pistonic for most of its bandwidth, would theoretically benefit the most.

This theoretically in-phase output would be a unique driver attribute compared to the TAD drivers and even JBL's current Be drivers. It would be interesting to have feedback if this two decade old technology actually results in a superior driver with a Be diaphragm.

Any thoughts as to why the 2450 seems to be rather unpopular? Is it because of the "snout" on it compared to say the 2452? Seems like 244X or 2451/2 are referenced much more often than the 2450.

[scott fitlin]

Awesome looking cabinets and horns. Cosmos, your the man.

[boputnam]

Or maybe I was picking up on the special damping qualities of the mold.

Rick, et al...

I missed this "shoot out", but am interested in the mechanics of doing it?

- How were the A/B comparisons done?
- Where they blind, or was there re-wiring required and waiting?
- Was there a chance to switch quickly from A/B on the same source material, and re-track the same program to allow good objective comparison?

I'm worried less about the "gear" - what's more important is that everything "upstream" stay the same, and only the drivers change as seamlessly and quickly as possible and without the jury knowing.

These are hard 'xperiments to do right - maintaining blind objectivity is a real goal. You are testing some very hi-end technologies. Do you have any pictures of the listening space? I've done these (on other gear) and would love to know how you got it all done.

[speakerdave]

Any thoughts as to why the 2450 seems to be rather unpopular? Is it because of the "snout" on it compared to say the 2452? Seems like 244X or 2451/2 are referenced much more often than the 2450.

Snout? Yeah--that could be it. It really should be mated to the ancient gradual expansion style horn that goes back to the '30's. Or it might just be a matter of somebody saying something on line and it gets repeated endlessly by people who never saw one of the drivers. The 2452, 2447, 2451 can be mounted to the 2352 type maximized aperture horn; Zilch says the combo is endlessly good. The original diaphragm is a ribbed titanium, designed for tough duty SR. I haven't even bother to listen to it. I put SL diaphragms in mine and mounted them on 2311's and used them for a couple of years in my 4345's. The only thing I tried that sounded better was a TAD 2001 on the original horn.

I'm guessin' the 2450 with a Still Extant beryllium diaphragm has got to be good.

[JeffW]

Snout? Yeah--that could be it. It really should be mated to the ancient gradual expansion style horn that goes back to the '30's. Or it might just be a matter of somebody saying something on line and it gets repeated endlessly by people who never saw one of the drivers.

There's not a lot I've seen posted about using the 2450 - positive or negative - out there, so negative internet ramblings don't seem to be it. The Meyer Sound usage and subsequent modification of the 2450 seem to indicate that they liked it.

The original diaphragm is a ribbed titanium, designed for tough duty SR. I haven't even bother to listen to it. I put SL diaphragms in mine

I listened to the ti phragms and have the -SLs ready to put into service directly, I'm looking forward to that.

I'm guessin' the 2450 with a Still Extant beryllium diaphragm has got to be good.

A sentiment that Don's post would seem to back up. I'm sure I'll give a set a whirl once I get to that point.

[spkrman57]

I got the chance to see and hear Cosmos speakers.

Since I also have Be diaphrams in my JBL drivers, I was interested in the difference between his system and mine.

Cosmos used SS electronic crossover and Lambda 15X driver (sounds similiar to JBL 2235), and of course his signature horns powered by Keggers tube amps (less than 10 wpc).

I use a passive crossover (currently 1.6khz until I get the 800hz wired up running), 350hz Edgarhorns and JBL 2226 drivers. I have a tubed electronic crossover being built for me in OK, but it will be a few more weeks until it is done and delivered.

I figured out some of the flaws in my current system by listening to Cosmos system. I'm thinking 800hz crossover will sound better than the 1.6khz I have now. I think the Lambda are better in the bass region, but the 2226 is better in the midbass/midrange region and more efficient(3 db) if you are passively crossing over helps keep overall efficiency up high (97.4db).

As much as I like my Edgarhorns, I have already put in my request to Cosmos to build me a pair of his horns(radial-tractix?), They are really nice, and I'm fairly picky about what I like, they don't quite image like the Edgarhorns, but you have a nice large listening area.

Regards, Ron

[4313B]

There's not a lot I've seen posted about using the 2450 - positive or negative - out there, so negative internet ramblings don't seem to be it. The Meyer Sound usage and subsequent modification of the 2450 seem to indicate that they liked it.

It's a neo 2446 which means it lost a whole lot of weight (20 lbs.) If you have it, use it?

If I'm not mistaken they cost a bit more than the 2446, and that cost is in the weight savings.

As much as I like my Edgarhorns, I have already put in my request to Cosmos to build me a pair of his horns(radial-tractix?),

Good deal!