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Thread: Geez, who the hell needs TAD

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Widget View Post


    We're still important to our mothers!


    Widget
    True, but even the moms think we are a bit odd.

  2. #62
    Senior Member JuniorJBL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by originaltubino View Post

    Pro audio is an industry. We're a little club. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but I just don't think we are in the marketing equation for the manufacturers.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Widget View Post


    We're still important to our mothers!


    Widget

    Always fun learning more.......

  3. #63
    Member originaltubino's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dingusboy View Post
    True, but even the moms think we are a bit odd.
    Amen to that. Mine keeps asking why I don't implement a proper gain structure with the bi-amping, and questions my use of damper diodes for a preamp power supply. She still loves me though, and I'm saving some 5AR4's for her for Mother's Day.

    More on topic, maybe, how would I ascertain if my TADs have tired diaphragms? The point was made above that most of us only get to hear TD-4001's that have been through the pro sound wringer. I don't *think* mine have been abused, but how would I know? Would this show up on FR response, or maybe it's a hard-to-measure transient response thing?

    I'm not curious enough to buy a new pair.

  4. #64
    Senior Member spkrman57's Avatar
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    Further on what tubino said...

    Would T/S testing using WT2 or WT3 show the possible tired drivers?

    Ron asks.....



    Quote Originally Posted by originaltubino View Post
    Amen to that. Mine keeps asking why I don't implement a proper gain structure with the bi-amping, and questions my use of damper diodes for a preamp power supply. She still loves me though, and I'm saving some 5AR4's for her for Mother's Day.

    More on topic, maybe, how would I ascertain if my TADs have tired diaphragms? The point was made above that most of us only get to hear TD-4001's that have been through the pro sound wringer. I don't *think* mine have been abused, but how would I know? Would this show up on FR response, or maybe it's a hard-to-measure transient response thing?

    I'm not curious enough to buy a new pair.
    JBL Pro for home use!

  5. #65
    Administrator Mr. Widget's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by originaltubino View Post
    ... how would I ascertain if my TADs have tired diaphragms? The point was made above that most of us only get to hear TD-4001's that have been through the pro sound wringer. I don't *think* mine have been abused, but how would I know? Would this show up on FR response, or maybe it's a hard-to-measure transient response thing?
    PM sent.


    Widget

  6. #66
    Senior Member herki the cat's Avatar
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    Mould in the 2445 cap

    Quote Originally Posted by cosmos View Post
    However, I glued in the padding on one of them with Arlene's tacky glue, when I dropped in the TrueXtents. I'll bet I trapped moisture in the cap from the glue.. and where there is moisture...
    C.P. Moyen Co. Inc. offers a comprehensive "Industrial Adhesives, Epoxies, and coatings, printed catalog titled: "Product Selector guide" describing specific applications on "metal, paper, foam & cloth" in loud speaker Assembly, including identification of each Moyen Adhesive solvent system, aka: Toluene, Methy Ethyl Ketone, Toluene, or water, each solvent depending on the speaker component to be cemented.

    Call C, P. Moyen Co., Customer Service at 1-847-67-6866, for the "Product Selector Guide."

    Cheers, herki the cat

  7. #67
    Member djnagle's Avatar
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    The last time I glued in foam pads I used a hot glue gun. I opened them up a couple years later and saw no issues. I think white glue is made with floorer and that would mold.

  8. #68
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    The Arlene's glue is definitely the culprit.

  9. #69
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    ?

    Quote Originally Posted by cosmos View Post
    Scott,

    That's a good question. They are certainly very extended in HF. Each diaphragm is individually tested on 2445 prior to shipment and a graph is included in the box. I have not run RTA testing on them yet.

    However, I don't perceive the reason to buy them as frequency response though. In my mind, the biggest advantage is their sound. They just sound smooth and detailed.

    Presently, I have them on some large homemade horns that are based on 248Hz Tractrix curve. They sound very open and natural.. Pictured here on top of 4507 cabinets loaded with E145-8 and actively crossed over at 480 Hz (24db Butterworth).

    No the horns are not finished yet. Maybe this weekend I will get some time...
    Are these a 2 way system ? I have some Jubilee bass bins and was wondering if this would work with say 402 horns.
    Is there much EQ required with the horns pictured ?

  10. #70
    Webmaster Don McRitchie's Avatar
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    An interesting JBL driver candidate for diaphragm replacement with Be would be the 2450. This driver was originally developed to accommodate a Be diaphragm as JBL was considering going head to head with TAD with that design. It was the reason for the development of the "Coherent Wave" phase plug. It allows for output from the diaphragm to be recombined in-phase at the driver throat in comparison to the out-of-phase output from a traditional phasing plug with variable length paths. According to JBL, it really only works with a Be diaphragm. The Al and Ti diaphragms are in breakup mode over most of their bandwidth, and as one designer said, are so "phasey" that there is limited benefit from the "Coherent Wave". However, a Be diaphragm, being pistonic for most of its bandwidth, would theoretically benefit the most.

    This theoretically in-phase output would be a unique driver attribute compared to the TAD drivers and even JBL's current Be drivers. It would be interesting to have feedback if this two decade old technology actually results in a superior driver with a Be diaphragm.
    Regards

    Don McRitchie

  11. #71
    Senior Member grumpy's Avatar
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    Should also be applicable to the (20lb heavier) 2446 motor/phase-plug, no?

  12. #72
    Unabashed Speakerholic cosmos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whatever1 View Post
    Are these a 2 way system ? I have some Jubilee bass bins and was wondering if this would work with say 402 horns.
    Is there much EQ required with the horns pictured ?
    These horns and drivers are running on a 2 way system. We have tried them with 2226, E145, Tad TL-1601A and Lambda TD-15M woofers. The horns pictured sound great, but have not been properly measured yet. Hopefully, they will be in the near future.

  13. #73
    Senior Member grumpy's Avatar
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    back to that. OK, I have 1.5 and 2.0" PWT's started in the garage...
    of course they'd only be good for comparisons on -those- PWT units, but
    impetus to finish them to a usable state is a good thing.

    After exchanging emails with Truextant and perusing their web pages,
    I see the curves they represent their product with is on a 2446J body
    (using the 16 ohm dia) and 2386 horn (flat front, 40x20 CD horn) ...
    which -sort of- answers the question about the worthwhile-ness of using
    a 2446 or 2450 with the CW phase plug.

  14. #74
    Senior Member spkrman57's Avatar
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    My experience

    I'm using a pair of JBL 2446 bodies with the Tru-extent Be diaphrams on 350hz round Edgarhorns.

    I don't know how different things would be with other horns or CD's, but I do know that I'm spoiled with what I have. I can't think of using Al or Ti diaphrams anymore as none of them play as "smooth and/or detailed".

    I also am running a 2-way w/JBL 2226 on the bottom end. Some may need a tweeter, but for my ears it does just fine without tweeters.

    Just my 2 cents worth of course!

    Regards, Ron
    JBL Pro for home use!

  15. #75
    Administrator Robh3606's Avatar
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    but I do know that I'm spoiled with what I have.
    Hello Ron

    Yes the Beryllium sure sounds nice. It's a nice upgrade.

    Rob
    "I could be arguing in my spare time"

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