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Thread: Geez, who the hell needs TAD

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  1. #1
    Member djnagle's Avatar
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    Geez, who the hell needs TAD

    Hi All, I spend the day listening to several different horns using the TAD 4001 and JBL 2445 with the TrueXtent Beryllium diaphragms. WOW is all I can say. We got the TrueXtents from Black Swamp Audio and in every instance I thought the 2445s with the Beryllium diaphragm sounded better. Not by very much mind you: and I am JBL biased, but for the price of the diaphragms and the 2445 that is readily available, it is a no brainer which one I am buying.


    Here is a shot of all the horns we brought together at Brad's (Black Swamp Audio) for critical listening. It was me, Dan (Cosmos), Rick (Tubino), and Brad. We had 2 sets of Yuichi horns, Smith horns, 2 pairs of Edgar horns, and Matinelli horns. All but the Martinellis took 2" compression drivers. We had 2 pairs of TAD 4001s and a pair of JBL 2445 with TrueXtent Beryllium diaphragms. My favorite combo was Rick's Yuichi horns with Dan's JBL 2445 drivers. There are not enough words to discribe the sound....if was wonderful.
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    Senior Member 1audiohack's Avatar
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    OK, just to get this straight, you didn't just read the spec's, or measure anything, you just listened?!? What a concept! I wonder if it will catch on?
    If we knew what the hell we were doing, we wouldn't call it research would we.

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    Member djnagle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1audiohack View Post
    OK, just to get this straight, you didn't just read the spec's, or measure anything, you just listened?!? What a concept! I wonder if it will catch on?

    I know, novel right? For myself, I much prefer to listen to something for quite a while before doing any measurements. I find that if I have Objective data before hand, I will only listen to the areas that I saw issues with.

    Just listening for a while allows me to evaluate the system by my ear, which is all that counts, before narrowing down issues to be addressed.

    That don't work if the speaker is way out of whack of course.

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    Member djnagle's Avatar
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    Hey Cosmos, after all the time we spend listening, I never asked what Black Swamp is asking for the diaphragms. Is he selling them direct or is he the one that has them listed on Agon?

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    Administrator Mr. Widget's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by djnagle View Post
    I know, novel right? For myself, I much prefer to listen to something for quite a while before doing any measurements. I find that if I have Objective data before hand, I will only listen to the areas that I saw issues with.
    I usually listen first myself... if you see a plot you tend to believe in it too much and begin to hear the plot.

    That said, disregarding measurements altogether is foolish. Often I have found a polarity issue or a driver not performing quite as well as it should. My ears are certainly not good enough to pick out each and every sonic gremlin.

    Quote Originally Posted by scott fitlin View Post
    OTOH, my TAD 2in drivers are not as dynamic sounding as my JBL 2in drivers, so to me, it just depends on the presentation one prefers.
    That reminds me of an article I read years ago where John Meyer was explaining that even though his subs were significantly louder than the Altec or JBLs that he was competing against, because of the Meyer's lack of distortion and coloration, they didn't sound as loud subjectively.


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    RIP 2010 scott fitlin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Widget View Post
    That reminds me of an article I read years ago where John Meyer was explaining that even though his subs were significantly louder than the Altec or JBLs that he was competing against, because of the Meyer's lack of distortion and coloration, they didn't sound as loud subjectively.


    Widget
    I have read the article myself. And IT IS TRUE!

    And for whatever reason, the ear hears two items, likes one item specifically, better than the other, and measurements suggest the opposite of the ear.
    scottyj

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    Administrator Mr. Widget's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scott fitlin View Post
    I have read the article myself. And IT IS TRUE!

    And for whatever reason, the ear hears two items, likes one item specifically, better than the other, and measurements suggest the opposite of the ear.
    I think it depends on the ear.


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    Administrator Mr. Widget's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by djnagle View Post
    Hi All, I spend the day listening to several different horns using the TAD 4001 and JBL 2445 with the TrueXtent Beryllium diaphragms. WOW is all I can say. We got the TrueXtents from Black Swamp Audio and in every instance I thought the 2445s with the Beryllium diaphragm sounded better. Not by very much mind you: and I am JBL biased, but for the price of the diaphragms and the 2445 that is readily available, it is a no brainer which one I am buying.
    I appreciate your comments on potential bias.

    I would think they would sound very similar... the differences being the TADs have slightly more powerful magnets and a different type of Be diaphragm. Is the TrueXtent 4" voice coil made in house? Winding them is a bit of an art form... I'd love to know more.

    As you mention, used 2445s are quite abundant and affordable, and short of physical abuse and damage, a used pair with new diaphragms should be quite fine. How much are they charging for these diaphragms? Are there different impedances offered?


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    Senior Member JoMoCo's Avatar
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    They have been advertising them for sale over at Audiogon in the 16ohm version. Supposedly the 8ohmers will be for sale soon. approx $700.ea...

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    Here's the thread from this site:

    http://www.audioheritage.org/vbullet...ad.php?t=27802

  11. #11
    Unabashed Speakerholic cosmos's Avatar
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    2445 versus.

    Ok here is an interesting question and quite appropriate to this thread. JBL 2445 was not know to be a very refined driver for HIFi use. I think that is a given. They do sound very nice with the TrueXtent Beryllium diaphragms.

    Is there a better body to use these diaphragms in, from a HiFi perspective?

  12. #12
    RIP 2010 scott fitlin's Avatar
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    My question is where is the audible improvement according to frequency? Is it the upper range of the driver, or the lower end of it's operating range?
    scottyj

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Widget View Post

    I would think they would sound very similar...

    Widget
    VERY similar indeed. I'm not AS quick to designate the Be 2445 the winner in every combination we listend to as Dennis but I can say without hesitation that they did sound every bit the TAD equal. when you consider cost and the earned reputation the TAD TD-4001's enjoy, that's saying alot.

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    woofer

    hello,

    i have also the 2445 be, but now searching for a good woofer.
    Can anyone give advise.
    For now i have choose the Beyma 18P80nd
    Has someone experience with 2235ef from DB design?

    Hans

  15. #15
    Senior Member eso's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by djnagle View Post


    ... 2 sets of Yuichi horns... My favorite combo was Rick's Yuichi horns with Dan's JBL 2445 drivers...
    Ha! I just came across this photo linked in the Chilean Audio forum.

    I made the pair of Yuichi's with the Burgundy mouth stripe. Are those Ricks? I sold them on Ebay years ago as a part of some house cleaning.

    They are solid MDF blocks, shaped per Yuichi's drawings and veneered with Braewood reconstituted Macassar ebony veneers.

    That is an exceptionally well designed radial horn.

    eso
    30Hz Bass Horns/K151, Custom Midbass/D130, 280Hz Round Tractrix/2440, Fostex T925a: Full range horn loaded bliss.

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