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Thread: Geez, who the hell needs TAD

  1. #46
    RIP 2010 scott fitlin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4313B View Post
    Well, I could swing by Monday after work and pick them up along with a pair of the 16 ohm diaphragms if you're so inclined. The intent would be to measure the impedance and frequency response on a H93/2311 horn for use in 43xx Studio Monitors. If you have a horn you'd also like measured for LEAP data I could do that at the same time.
    That would be cool. I want to see what these diaphragms and motors measure like.
    scottyj

  2. #47
    Senior Member spkrman57's Avatar
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    Asking for a favor....

    4313B,

    Brad has a pair of my Edgar 350hz round wooden tractix horns (2") at his house right now. Would you be willing to measure those horns for me in addition to doing his?

    Thanks, Ron


    Quote Originally Posted by 4313B View Post
    Well, I could swing by Monday after work and pick them up along with a pair of the 16 ohm diaphragms if you're so inclined. The intent would be to measure the impedance and frequency response on a H93/2311 horn for use in 43xx Studio Monitors. If you have a horn you'd also like measured for LEAP data I could do that at the same time.
    JBL Pro for home use!

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by spkrman57 View Post
    4313B,

    Brad has a pair of my Edgar 350hz round wooden tractix horns (2") at his house right now. Would you be willing to measure those horns for me in addition to doing his?

    Thanks, Ron
    Sure. Call me and we'll talk about what you need done.

  4. #49
    Senior Member Progneta's Avatar
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    For those there to listen (Brad, Rick, Dan)...What did you listen too when performing the listening test?

    -Grant

  5. #50
    Member djnagle's Avatar
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    We went through the gambit. Rock, jazz, blues, folk, techno, and just a bit of classical but it was parts of non classical songs so not a good comparison there. I can't remember the exact titles, but now that you ask, I will take notes next time. Cheers.

  6. #51
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    I pulled the back cap off one of the borrowed 2445 drivers to check the Be diaphragm and was greeted with a ton of mold. I quickly took the whole mess outside to the detached garage and will deal with it tomorrow when I get home from work. It was a real show stopper. After I clean it all up with some bleach I'll probably replace the felt in the cap with the JBL foam.

    I'll pull the other 2445 apart when so motivated and check it too.

    I finished all the 2441 measurements. I guess I'll post the results in a different thread at some point.

  7. #52
    Member djnagle's Avatar
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    Hey 4313B, that is really strange about the mold. Have you ever seen that before....I've not.

    I will anxciously (bad speller) the results of the 2441 as that is what I have.

  8. #53
    Member originaltubino's Avatar
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    System used

    Quote Originally Posted by Progneta View Post
    For those there to listen (Brad, Rick, Dan)...What did you listen too when performing the listening test?

    -Grant
    Sine waves.

    Not sure if you meant equipment or music, but someone else asked about the electronics and the rest of the system, and I didn't see an answer. It was a two-way with a TAD 1601a in a ~7 cu. ft box tuned to low to mid 30s. The system was bi-amped with DeHavilland Aries SE A2 845 mono amps on the bottom, and Larry Moore's UltraFi SE 845 on top, with crossover at 700 on (somewhat noisy) Heathkit X0-1 crossovers. Crossovers have since been replaced by 650hz units built around the Steve Bench PCB design using 6DJ8 as cathode follower and carefully matched parts (quieter and much cleaner, better imaging). Volume was set with an autoformer unit using the Intact Audio/Dave Slagle units.

    For at least part of the time the HF was my Yuichi S-290 wood horns (built by Woody Banks -- credit where it's due!) with TAD TD4001. For a part of the time for round two we had a new pair of Lambda/AE TD-15M woofers in the same cabinets. Great setup -- just about 8 t-nuts short of perfect.

    I've been promised a chance to live with JBL drivers using the Truextant diaphragms in swap for my 4001's for a week. I think a week with my system and my wood horns (much overlap with what we listened to at Brad's) will really give me chance to learn the differences. I have my suspicions, and I suspect differences will be slightly more pronounced when crossover frequency is say 500 rather than 800. Or maybe I was picking up on the special damping qualities of the mold. It was a lot of fun to try out different combinations, but I'm not much for definitive judgments under these circumstances.

    --Rick aka tubino

  9. #54
    Unabashed Speakerholic cosmos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4313B View Post
    I pulled the back cap off one of the borrowed 2445 drivers to check the Be diaphragm and was greeted with a ton of mold. I quickly took the whole mess outside to the detached garage and will deal with it tomorrow when I get home from work. It was a real show stopper. After I clean it all up with some bleach I'll probably replace the felt in the cap with the JBL foam.

    I'll pull the other 2445 apart when so motivated and check it too.

    I finished all the 2441 measurements. I guess I'll post the results in a different thread at some point.
    That is really strange considering they haven't even been together very long (a few weeks) and have been in my house the entire time...

    However, I glued in the padding on one of them with Arlene's tacky glue, when I dropped in the TrueXtents. I'll bet I trapped moisture in the cap from the glue.. and where there is moisture...

  10. #55
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    I immediately suspected the felt or glue. I wish that I'd snapped a picture of it. Very smelly cotton candy stuffed inside the back cap is as best as I can describe it. It's even growing on the Be diaphragm ( evidently Be isn't toxic to mold )

    So what are the names of these horns I am testing? Edgar and Yuichi?

    I was talking with JBL last week and these TrueXtent diaphragms came up (didn't have anything to do with this thread). I relayed the story to Brad the other day and he can fill you in at the next meeting you guys have.

    JBL probably doesn't like the idea of TrueXtent coming out with 1.75" and 3" versions either. Oh well. It's obviously a tough world we live in.

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4313B View Post

    So what are the names of these horns I am testing? Edgar and Yuichi?
    The Round horn is an 350hz Edgarhorn (tractrix flare).

    The other is a Yuichi A-290, a 290hz with a hyperbolic flare - it's a clone of the TAD TH-4001.

    Mold and Be - two great toxins that go great together!!!

  12. #57
    Senior Member spkrman57's Avatar
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    Business is business

    Quote Originally Posted by 4313B View Post
    JBL probably doesn't like the idea of TrueXtent coming out with 1.75" and 3" versions either. Oh well. It's obviously a tough world we live in.
    JBL does not want to supply the DIY hobbyist or other avenues in this country, but they don't want anyone else to either! (?)

    Regards, Ron
    JBL Pro for home use!

  13. #58
    Senior Member Ian Mackenzie's Avatar
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    I really dont think it matters much as JBL has not been pushing its drivers to EOM s for over a decade now, favouring to push branded fully built ranges to various pro segments. As I recall they did not have control of what the OEM s were using once RCF and Beyma and few others moved in after the QA issues in the 90s.

    Diyers will always need motors and crossovers and diaphragms but that will never support the commercial side of a business case.

    But if the recent publicity popularises Be in the eyes of the consumer audio press then compression drivers might capture the imagination of the well healed audio public who need bigger, louder but accurate sound.

  14. #59
    Member originaltubino's Avatar
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    DIY Diaphragm Users are Few

    I really doubt Brush-Wellman's business plan is counting on DIYers. I think they are after the pro market for replacement diaphragms, and that's why they emphasize durability as much or more than extreme fidelity.

    There are a bazillion pro sound guys blowing up diaphragms on a regular basis, and then there is a handful of home audio fanatics who can live off a pair of diaphragms for the rest of their natural lives. As a consumer group we're not even the tail on the pro audio dog. We might be the pimple on the flea on the tail of the dog. I bet 90% of the people who use 2" compression drivers in their homes in the US are in the cumulative contacts lists of readers of this and maybe 2 other forums. Add one more degree of separation and we'd get most of the rest of the world too.

    Pro audio is an industry. We're a little club. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but I just don't think we are in the marketing equation for the manufacturers.

  15. #60
    Administrator Mr. Widget's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by originaltubino View Post
    Pro audio is an industry. We're a little club. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but I just don't think we are in the marketing equation for the manufacturers.


    We're still important to our mothers!


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