The west coast sound vs the east coast sound.

[scott fitlin]

Wolf, you really don't think Tubes have their own form of coloration?

[scott fitlin]

There has been tons of material written about JBL that is not in your library here ! You might spend more time researching that JBL material that is not in your library. Sort of expanding your knowledge about JBL and audio.
Just a question. Why would you use a four letter word here ?

Actual technical papers? Or hi fi magazine reviews and opinion written about JBL?

WE happen to have a VERY comprehensive library.

[wolfshead]

Wolf, you really don't think Tubes have their own form of coloration?

Yes tubes have their own form of coloration. A pre amp adds color as well , the more controls or stages on a preamp the more color added.

[wolfshead]

Actual technical papers? Or hi fi magazine reviews and opinion written about JBL?

WE happen to have a VERY comprehensive library.

I agree , but there is other sources of information about JBL's as well tons of information.

[hjames]

Finally my friends and I would take an analog recording and compare a digital recording of the same material side by side , using analog speakers , there was a lost in some of the detail.
The audio systems used were analog. Records , not CD's there was a reason for not using CD's.
My point.

WHEN did you do this thing - every year equipment is improved, every year technology moved forward.

If this test was done 20 years ago, its suspect, 10 years ago, it is suspect - even 5 years ago ... CD players and DACs (Digital Audio Converters - standalone devices that decode the digital into analog) continue to improve, better is available for less.

Plus, if you are like every human that ever lived - entropy affects you too, good sir - your ears and physical structure breaks down over time - as the cilia in your ears gets older it becomes less flexible.

FACT, not opinion, on the cilia, by the way ... we all have that to look forward to ...

[scott fitlin]

So how can you make any argument that transistors and digital add coloration?

So did/do tubes, and analog, too! And, not only that! Analog, and tube audio are also known to contain certain distortions that make music sound good. Not distortion like severely overdriving a speaker or amplifier. But it has long been known certain minute distortions actually sound musical to the ear! I guess your right about the ear. It is easily fooled.

[wolfshead]

So how can you make any argument that transistors and digital add coloration?

So did/do tubes, and analog, too! And, not only that! Analog, and tube audio are also known to contain certain distortions that make music sound good. Not distortion like severely overdriving a speaker or amplifier. But it has long been known certain minute distortions actually sound musical to the ear! I guess your right about the ear. It is easily fooled.

Scotty you are right , right , right !
I try not to use the word better , I prefer different. A Hartsfield has color , but than so does a Patrician. The difference is which color does one enjoy.


Today the reproduction of music is not better , but different.
Today we are able to add more color to music in the form of more technology. More is not always better especially in sound reproduction.

Than there is cost , I would love to hear the $150,000 Steinway speaker and amplifer system. Here cost is no probem.
50 years ago it was the Hartsfield , Marantz system , than cost was no problem. What would we use for a source ? That would be an interesting AB
test in my opinion.

[jcrobso]

Wolf, you really don't think Tubes have their own form of coloration?

That is why guitar players love tube amps, they call the sound "fat".
Hi-Fi tube lovers call the sound warm, same basic sound.
FYI: I'm NOT putting tubs amps down, I have designed and built a couple of them, just stating what I have learned.
Any one remember the Telarc direct to disc series? That was about as close to live recorded sound as I have ever heard.
I also agree that there is not east coast-west coast sound today.
None of has had the exact same listening experience, we made have listened to the same speakers, but at different times and in different rooms. There are so many variables at play, but we all have come to the conclusion, we like JBL speakers.

[scott fitlin]

Scotty you are right , right , right !
I try not to use the word better , I prefer different. A Hartsfield has color , but than so does a Patrician. The difference is which color does one enjoy.


Today the reproduction of music is not better , but different.
Today we are able to add more color to music in the form of more technology. More is not always better especially in sound reproduction.

Than there is cost , I would love to hear the $150,000 Steinway speaker and amplifer system. Here cost is no probem.
50 years ago it was the Hartsfield , Marantz system , than cost was no problem. What would we use for a source ? That would be an interesting AB
test in my opinion.

I have heard some DIGITAL masters. Was an experience, too. Quite real sounding, couldn't honestly say it was digital or analog!

[SEAWOLF97]

back in the 70's I bought a higher end Panasonic cassette deck ...MOAN...but it came with a demo tape. The demo had no hiss, no noise, great imaging , superb sound ...etc. I was never able to make any tapes than came near that demo tape.

This all leads me to believe that source material is just as important as the gear....( and that tape wasnt made on my machine )

[wolfshead]

That is why guitar players love tube amps, they call the sound "fat".
Hi-Fi tube lovers call the sound warm, same basic sound.
FYI: I'm NOT putting tubs amps down, I have designed and built a couple of them, just stating what I have learned.
Any one remember the Telarc direct to disc series? That was about as close to live recorded sound as I have ever heard.
I also agree that there is not east coast-west coast sound today.
None of has had the exact same listening experience, we made have listened to the same speakers, but at different times and in different rooms. There are so many variables at play, but we all have come to the conclusion, we like JBL speakers.

I agree . There is a tube sound as there is a transisor sound.
I to like JBL speakers. There are other speakers I also enjoyed. I don't like JBL book shelf speakers.

I have several Telarc classical recordings. I also have several recordings That was purchased in Europe. The pressing was much better in Europe than in America.

As for as there is no longer a east coast , west coast sound , you may be correct. Than what is there today ? What is the differences in speakers ?

[wolfshead]

back in the 70's I bought a higher end Panasonic cassette deck ...MOAN...but it came with a demo tape. The demo had no hiss, no noise, great imaging , superb sound ...etc. I was never able to make any tapes than came near that demo tape.

This all leads me to believe that source material is just as important as the gear....( and that tape wasnt made on my machine )

I agree again. A first generation tape has unbelievable sound ! The gear only reproduces the source. That is why I don't like Ipod's.

[wolfshead]

WHEN did you do this thing - every year equipment is improved, every year technology moved forward.

If this test was done 20 years ago, its suspect, 10 years ago, it is suspect - even 5 years ago ... CD players and DACs (Digital Audio Converters - standalone devices that decode the digital into analog) continue to improve, better is available for less.

Plus, if you are like every human that ever lived - entropy affects you too, good sir - your ears and physical structure breaks down over time - as the cilia in your ears gets older it becomes less flexible.

FACT, not opinion, on the cilia, by the way ... we all have that to look forward to ...

Your last point is true. As one gets older their hearing declines.
Technology has been improving. But than tell me why is it with all the
technology , no one has been able to produce a sound as wonderful as a Stradivari ?

[SEAWOLF97]

I agree again. A first generation tape has unbelievable sound ! The gear only reproduces the source. That is why I don't like Ipod's.

Doubt that it was a first gen tape...they had to make thousands of them, 1 for each new deck.

An iPod CAN sound spectacular too, depending on the source material. In theory, it adds no coloration.

[scott fitlin]

I agree again. A first generation tape has unbelievable sound ! The gear only reproduces the source. That is why I don't like Ipod's.

Wait a second, Wolf. Your contradicting yourself again.

The gear only REPRODUCES the source, you state! Then, why dislike iPod for reproducing a source you do not like? It could very well be the source you don't like.

5 years ago, iPod playing MP3 sounded well, less than!

But today I have digital files that sound amazing, very clean, silky, extended, delicate and airy highs, CLEAR mids with depth, and dimensionality, and transparency. Good, taught, rhythmic, and articulate bass.

A few tracks here and there, in dance music, still have that rough sounding, sizzly, MP3,ish type treble sound, but, twas the way the artist or producer made the music, trying to make a certain sound that they may call "their sound".

And just as speakers make a HUGE difference in ANY system, try listening to a GOOD lossless file using an iPod and a VERY GOOD set of headphones, NOT the ear bud junk that is bought by many.